When I heard about this, I had to check up on it. The United States Government is denying the religious freedom of pagans by decreeing pentacles and pentagrams are not to be carved on headstones of dead Wiccan soldiers. Wicca is a legally recognized religion by the American Government standards… this act is inconstitutional and something must be done. Today there is a rally in Washington D.C. being held by pagans all over America to fight this very Un-American decision.
Perhaps, but would I not treat it as such a proportion would you be more likely to dismiss it? Allow me to illustrate:
“Among the maxims on Lord Naoshige’s wall there was this one: ‘Matters of great concern should be treated lightly.’ Master Ittei commented, 'Matters of small concern should be treated seriously.” Among one’s own affairs there should not be more than two or three matters of what one could call great concern. If these are deliberated upon during ordinary times, they can be understood. Thinking about things previously and then handling them lightly when the time comes is what this is all about. To face an event and solve it lightly is difficult if you are not resolved beforehand, and there will always be uncertainty in hitting your mark. Haowever, if the foundation is laid previously, you can think of the saying, ‘Matters of great concern should be treated lightly,’ as your own basis for action." —Yamamoto Tsunetomo, Hagakure: The Book of the Samurai
So… this unconstitutional injustice may seem not a big thing to you, but if you look in the long run, it can lead to a lack of religious freedom. If I speak calm and collectively about such a matter to a Congressman or such other government official of that ilk, I may not be heard unless I appear extremely upset about it; blowing it out of proportion by making it seem like: “Look Mr. Senator, this is what’s happening today… so what will you let happen tomorrow?” Are they more likely to listen?
This act of bigotry should not be tolerated by any USA citizen. If one religion is discriminated against then others will be following until only one religion is allowed. That is how it works. My son must not have heard of this yet, he will be hopping mad, Most of his friends follow Wicca and Pagan.
By all means, there ought to be a furor raised over this issue. It is just another example of how religion is becoming irrelevent in American culture. This doesn’t lead to the establishment of one religion, it attacks ALL religion. For all the proclamations of how religious Americans are, the reality is that we are secular. When religion finally gets in the way of our secular interests, religion, all religions, lose big time. The pendulum still is swinging toward a vicious form of religious fervor, but it is a hollow threat. Still, stupidities like this fill the basket of disgust and irritation. Soon, the pendulum will swing back toward secular interests. Once again religion will be discredited in it’s irrationality.
Oh Jesus, I think you’re all making too big a deal of this.
I mean, granted it is horrible and more than likely it will be changed, but one incident a national injustice does not make. By all means, hell should be raised, but I don’t think this single example is indicitive of any larger trend. Now, if you could come up with a few hundred thousand of these, that would be differant…
How about telling folks who they should marry and how many you can marry at one time, or how about not being allowed to put up religious symbols on your own property comercial or residential. Have you ever read the individual state constitutions? Interesting readings. Why are registered churches tax exempt and why do churches have to register? why is prayer in school an issue? Why is abortion a religious issue. Why must we swear to god to tell the truth in court? Why must our currency say in god we trust? why is it that everytime you turn around certain religious beliefs are predominant in political promises. Why if the USA gov’t is so unbiased about religion does it give only certain “legal Holidays” off paid to its employees. I could go on
I am not religious I would probably be considered atheist, I prefer JOAT.
but, when I see one sect rising far and away above others and this sect has almost total government control I am concerned for certain freedoms and rights of all religions, not to mention mine. The military is not bound by religion or it should not be but, it is because the words like fighting for God is used way too much that make me quite nervous about who actually is in control. And what can we do about it except inform rant and rave about injustices.
I have a voice and this is my land and Piss on any who tell me that I have to believe in what they think is best for me or others. Turning religious beliefs into laws is an insult to all religious doctrine and freedoms.
Laws must be ethical not religious and the two are quite seperate.
My, what a quaint idea. Those of religious fervor see no separation. Most couldn’t spell ethical, but they are positive that their version of MORALITY is completely correct and that everyone must adhere to their judgements and proclamations. After all, God is on their side and has given them explicit instruction through their holy texts (as interpreted by their latest prophets).
Fortunately, the majority of folks are neither religious or particularly ethical, and this latest neo-con/religious extremist stuff will give way to secular needs and distractions.
Grrr… Stupid government. Kriswest was right. We can’t ban one religeon and allow another. I mean, are Wiccans doing anyone any harm to anyone because of their religeon? If someone thinks they are being spiritually blemished (or anything like that) by a Wiccan, they can pray to their own wonderful, kind, forgiving, et cetera God for help.
Anyone who argues that religious freedom is alive and well in this country is either a Christian or an idiot (or both). I don’t think the fact that “In God We Trust” on our currency is worth fighting about. I don’t think having “Christmas holidays” at public schools is worth all the complaining. I’m an atheist, and I don’t really mind either. But things like not allowing pagan/Wiccan soldiers’ symbols on their tombstones is ludicrous. And does anyone remember the furor over Keith Ellison, the first Muslim elected to Congress? He wanted to swear the oath on a Koran, not the Bible, and people said that if he couldn’t swear on the Bible he shouldn’t be allowed to serve in Congress. There is an alive and well desire by many Christians to create a theocracy of sorts in this country. They argue that this is a Judeo-Christian country. Sorry, no. This is a secular country. The fact that a majority of people in this country deem themselves Christian does not give them a right to impose their religious will or morals (abortion, gay marriage anyone?) on the rest of us.
I had no idea that this thread had been resurrected recently. The last posted dated before the “newer posts” was on July 9th, 2006. The new posts started just this past month on February 19th, 2007. It should be noted, for those who don’t know, that in September of 2006, the US Department of Veteran Affairs gave in to the demands made by the AUSCS because the “state veterans’ cemeteries were not under federal authority.”
That’s right, the Wiccans won… however…
Bush has commented on Wicca, saying: “I don’t think witchcraft is a religion. I would hope the military officials would take a second look at the decision they made”, in regards to an incident in which conservative Christians (in 1999) attempted to boycott enlistment and re-enlistment of US Citizens into the US Army because of Wiccan gatherings on military bases of Wiccan soldiers (they wanted the Army to terminate all freedoms of religion, speech, and assembly for Wiccan soldiers)… it didn’t last (duh!).
Then they would have to remove all on base chapels, Priests, preachers, Rabbis etc… The idiots.
Bush is a Christian Poser. If such an action truly happened they may as well destroy the Constitution. or use it as Toilet paper. I will have no more respect for it. All that I believed as a free citizen will go down the drain. The Christians will successfully hold hostage the United States.
That is a frightening prospect. When will the burnings begin?
Hmmm, given the illogical demands of those who would deny any religion, a smart person wishing to avoid military service would only have to declare themselves Wiccan. I’m sure that those who would attempt to force their exclusiveness on others would be happy to defend the country all by themselves. A house divided…
Well, [i]Wicca[/i] isn't a religion; almost any wiccan I've ever known will become very insistant on correcting anybody who says that it is. It's concerned with spiritual-type stuff, but a wiccan is always the first to bitch about the woes of 'organized religion'. If they aren't an organized religion, then they don't get the recognition of one, plain and simple. As far as the law ought to be concerned, they are just a bunch of random folks.
Honestly, [i]honestly[/i] now; if someone tells you they are a Wiccan, you can conclude more from that about their fashion sense than you can their spiritual beliefs.
Now, that said, people shouldn't be kept out of the Army for being Wiccan. However, whatever practices or rituals they want to practice cannot be respected or allowed if they pose any disruption to miitary training or operation- that is to say, they cannot even get the usual understand or allowances that a mainstream religious practice would get. Why? Because there's no organization. Today a wiccan ritual might involve dancing naked, tomorrow it might involve smoking hash. You can't make allowances for something that is random and chaotic like that, and it would be an even worse infringement for the military to say what a wiccan ceremony is and is not allowed to be.
A beaurocracy can accomodate a large number of described groups- Buddists can't eat this, Jews can't wear that, Christians refuse to say these certain words, whatever. This can all be written down. But each individual Wiccan is going to have a different set of rules he made up himself, and you can't extend recognition to that.
Again, you can’t be treated like an organized religion if you refuse to behave like one.
