on immigration

borders are a relativley modern invention. travel documents are even newer. the idea of restricting one’s free movement was born in the 20th century.

it is written in the Bill of human rights that every person has the right to free movement, However, we have visas. It seems to me that visas themselves and the way they are issued is a villation of human rights. I’ve once met a lady in her thirties that applied in an eastern europe country for a US visa. She was denied with a nice official letter. When she asked the embassy clerk why she was denied the visa, she was answered that her visa was denied because she was not married.

i can understand that immigration is an issue. however, limiting the right to free movement of one person based on the assumption that he/she might seek asylum or another form of naturalization in the host country is just wrong.

so, my question is how do you reconciliate human rights with visas? and especially for americans, how can go all over the world fighting wars for human rights and denying visas or asking absurd conditions for a visa?

“human” rights are not recognized by the state…

only state rights are…

huge difference… state rights are enforced by the states, “human” rights are not enforced by anyone

-Imp

Everyone should have the right to leave a country, and every country should have the right to refuse entry.

I can see why this leads to problems!

But if i have the right to move freely, why can a country limit that by refusing entry?

Here is my question, we call ourselfs a ‘‘world’’ of peace and freedom, we repeatedley tell eachother and are forced to believe that goverments and eladers are only trying to provide us with freedom. Why then are some of us restricted from our own freedom? Surely if i am entitled to my freedom, then each individual out there should too be entitled to his, otherwise my freedom conflicts with theirs and that is not freedom but rather somebody/somewhere acting out of self interest. I agree that acting out of self interest is freedom but there would be no such chance of that kind of freedom if each person did that, what then if you could not act out as you wish just because somebody else was restricting your freedom? This is exactly how immigrants feel, potential immigrants anyway. To We live in a scociety where freedom is only gained if each person acts in a way that does not restrict the next person’s freedom, yet we restrict Immigrants freedom everyday?

Rami.

Immigrationis what America is all about - America is a living prove that immigration leads towards prosperity. So just don’t let twats in.

What if they don’t have the basic level of freedom as you have in whichever Country you may be in? There should be no limit to asylum seekers.

Rami.

DO I HAVE THE FREEDOM TO MIGRATE TO YOUR BED ROOM AND BURN UP YOUR BED?

we live in a world of compromise. the UN resolution on human rights that says we all have the freedom to go whereever we like is a blatant lie plus it makes no sense.

it’ll make it easier to understand if I draw a comparison between country and a house. Let’s face it, we are not family.

So Rami I guess you won’t be voting for the tories then.

I wonder,

what if i wanted to go to Iran and do some nude skiing at the end of the season.

Or into a mosque,

or i wanted to get a piece of that great socialist medicine they have in Canada

How long would Paris let a dumb american like me hang around

Or Istanbul, or China, or Russia

Why is this about America, the country that was built by tired huddled masses yearning to breathe free?

Immigration? we mastered the art of it. Yet if i wanted to retire to Peru, i would need half an army to protect myself and a few million to pay off the authorities.

I agree they are all imaginary lines(execpt for the ones which border on rivers and such) but the meaning behind them is made up.

From reading the threads on this site, we are eons away from having a society that woiuld accept all races together where borders and lines mean nothing when compared to the brotherhood of humanity