On Islam, from the NY Post

[scythekain]

nypost.com/postopinion/opedc … _dabul.htm

WELL, here it is, five years late, but here just the same: an apology from an Arab-American for 9/11. No, I didn’t help organize the killers or contribute in any way to their terrible cause. However, I was one of millions of Arab-Americans who did the unspeakable on 9/11: nothing.

The only time I raised my voice in protest against these men who killed thousands of innocents in the name of Allah was behind closed doors, among the safety of friends and family. I did at one point write a very vitriolic essay condemning their actions, but fear of becoming another Salman Rushdie kept me from ever trying to publish it.*

Well, I’m sick of saying the truth only in private - that Arabs around the world, including Arab-Americans like myself, need to start holding our own culture accountable for the insane, violent actions that our extremists have perpetrated on the world at large.

Yes, our extremists and our culture.

Every single 9/11 hijacker was Arab and a Muslim. The apologists (including President Bush) tried to reassure us that 9/11 had nothing to do with Islam, but was a twisting of a great and noble religion. With all due respect, read the Koran, Mr. President.** There’s enough there for someone of extreme tendencies to find their way to a global jihad.

• We need to help them overcome their fear… we don’t and can’t through appeasement.

** I don’t think that’s enough, you have to read the Koran with the understanding that they believe it as god’s will, and command.

So there it is, a condemnation against arabs and muslims from an arab muslim. The religion needs to change, and the more muslims we can get on our side the better off the whole world will be.

Further on:

For as long as I live, the image of those towers falling, as I watched in horror and disbelief from the corner of 40th and Fifth, will be for me my Pearl Harbor, for in that instant I recognized that not only was our city under attack - so was our freedom.

It still is. And will continue to be for years to come. And the threat is not from within, but from Islamic fascists who desperately want to destroy the freedom and opportunities that millions the world over still seek.

Five years after that awful day, it’s time for all Arab-Americans, and Arabs around the world, to protest against Islamic fascism, to raise our voices - and, where necessary, our arms - against these tyrants until their plague of terror has been driven from the face of the earth forever.

[scythekain]

and this shows that we have an upward battle:

(from the former prime minister of malaysia)
thesundaily.com/article.cfm?id=15480

“What is happening today has got nothing to do with religion. It has got to do with territorial disputes, mainly the dispute over Palestinian land,” he told Reuters after a religious congress here.

He said Bush’s description of America’s “war on terror” as “a struggle for civilisation” on the fifth anniversary of the attacks was flawed, as was the West’s hope that moderate Muslims would have a dominant voice.

“There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim,” he said. “We are fundamentalists in Malaysia. We follow the true teachings of the religion and the true teachings do not teach us to bomb and kill people without reason.”

And what reason do they have?

“they are oppressed”… Osama Bin Laden, one of the richest men in the world is oppressed? A religion with over 1 billion followers is oppresssed?

They are oppressed because we are not muslim.

“Israel oppresses them.” Israel is an island of freedom trapped within an isle of religious/political fascism. There are muslims, jews, christians and atheists within Israel… Even gays are allowed to live out there lives without fear of being killed by the government… what other government in the middle east can say that?

In Iran, they Ahminejad is having all the secular universites and professors shut down.

In Egypt, they regularly arrest and harrass christians and homosexuals.

In America, Khotemi(sp?) the ex-president of Iran, stated that it is the law of Islam to hang homosexuals at Harvard, and recieved silence as a response… yet these same “gay-activists” call christians fascists for not wanting to change the tradition of marriage…

I can understand the fear…* to not address the problems, but we must not give into fear.

As a famous liberal said;

“The only thing to fear, is fear itself.”

*Link to a journalist who was beheaded in Sudan for criticizing Islam and the prophet.

[my_real_name]

There was also a news article on some things the Pope said on Islam. Turned out to be a talk, more widely, about reason and religion. I have posted a link to the speech in my footer.

vatican.va/holy_father/bened … rg_en.html

[scythekain]

@my real name

There was also a news article on some things the Pope said on Islam. Turned out to be a talk, more widely, about reason and religion. I have posted a link to the speech in my footer.

vatican.va/holy_father/bened … rg_en.html

That was a great speech, and has opened up what will be called “pope row” in the coming weeks.

I found this on a news blog:

I’m a grad student in Theology at a Catholic seminary here in the U.S. and a long-time reader of your blog.

The media is ignoring the substance of Pope Benedict’s remark while letting Muslims appear to be victims. Islam was indeed spread by violence. Denying that is like denying the holocaust. That wasn’t the point of what the Pope was saying. In the address scientists on the role of faith and reason in human experience, the Pope recounts a debate between a Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus and an “educated Persian.” Here I quote directly from his address :

@pope

Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. “God”, he [the Byzantine emperor] says, “is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God’s nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats… To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death…”.

The Muslims clearly have no response to this*, because their religion was spread by the sword, and we can see it is spread so still by the forced conversions of Steve Centani and his camera operator. But underlying this is a theological point about the nature of God and his relationship with mankind that the Muslims also have no appropriate response for. The Pope continues:

@pope

The decisive statement in this argument against violent conversion is this: not to act in accordance with reason is contrary to God’s nature. The editor [of the text where this debate appears], Theodore Khoury, observes: For the emperor, as a Byzantine shaped by Greek philosophy, this statement is self-evident. But for Muslim teaching, God is absolutely transcendent. His will is not bound up with any of our categories, even that of rationality. Here Khoury quotes a work of the noted French Islamist R. Arnaldez, who points out that Ibn Hazn went so far as to state that God is not bound even by his own word, and that nothing would oblige him to reveal the truth to us. Were it God’s will, we would even have to practise idolatry.

God can’t be God if he is unreasonable, because if He is unreasonable then he has some kind of deficiency or imperfection. Imperfection is incompatible with His divine nature. He can’t transcend reason because perfect reason is also integral to His nature as God. God can’t command us to practice idolatry, as the Muslim theologian Ibn Hazn said, because this would be totally incompatible with His nature. God can’t be untrue to Himself - He doesn’t have such human failings!

The Muslims can’t justify the unreasonableness of violence by saying God transcends reason. The result of their beliefs is to make God in the image of their own leaders who spread Islam by any means possible in order to subjugate as many as possible under their brutal power.

• They have now made several responses. The Mufti of Saudi Arabia, says dialogue is impossible, because of the popes “lies” about Islam and the prophet.

Somali cleric calls for the popes death:

or these muslims burning effigies of the post, and condeming the words in the blog above.

There actions show me that they are in need of having the flashlight of inquiry of truth shined upon them. It’s not going to be pretty. But it must be done, unfortunately the MSM, is filled with spineless appeasers like the BBC, and the NYT, who tell the pope he must apologize for his remarks.

[Uccisore]

So, Muslims, upset at the implication that they are evil and violent, respond by calling for the death of the Pope. Enough is enough, already. There’s no point in reasoning with these people, or treating them as reasonable anymore. They’re just an enemy to be dealt with until they’re no longer a threat.

[my_real_name]

And to think…we let them build a giant mosque in Rome to rival the Vatican. They can at least be civil while taking us over.

[Uccisore]

And to think…we let them build a giant mosque in Rome to rival the Vatican.

Hell you say!! Why didn’t anybody ask my opinion about this?

[scythekain]

@my real name

And to think…we let them build a giant mosque in Rome to rival the Vatican. They can at least be civil while taking us over.

heh, if only.

either of you heard of Oriana Fallaci? She was highly critical of the italian government and Islam, and the muslims got the government to try her with crimes against Islam. She died a few days ago from Lung Cancer.

an excerpt from one of her books:

Now, I ask myself: “What do you say, what do you have to say, about what happened in London?” They ask me face-to-face, via fax and email; often scolding me because up until now I have remained silent. Almost as if my silence were a betrayal. And each time I shake my head and murmur to myself: what else should I say?!? I’ve been saying it for four years–that I fight against the Monster that has decided to eliminate us physically and, along with our bodies, to destroy our principles and values. Our civilization. For four years I’ve been talking about Islamic Nazism; about the war against the West; about the death cult; about European suicide. About a Europe that is no longer Europe, but Eurabia, and that with its feebleness, its inertia, its blindness, its servitude to the enemy is digging its own grave. For four years, like another Cassandra, I’ve been shouting until I’m hoarse “Troy is burning! Troy is burning!” and I despair of the Danaids for whom, like Virgil in the Aeneid I weep for a city entombed in its torpor. [A city] that, through its wide-open doors receives fresh troops and joins complicit parties [inside]. For four years I’ve been repeating to the wind the truth about the Monster and its accomplices; that is, the accomplices of the Monster who, in good or bad faith, open wide the doors–who, like [those] in the Apocalypse of John the Evangelist, throw themselves at his feet and allow themselves to be stamped with the mark of shame.

I began with “The Rage and the Pride.“ I continued with “The Force of Reason.“ I followed [those] with “Oriana Fallaci Interviews Oriana Fallaci,” and “The Apocalypse.” And in each one I preached, “Wake up, West! Wake up!“ The books, the ideas, for which in France they tried me in 2002, accusing me of religious racism and xenophobia. For which Switzerland asked our Minister of Justice to extradite me in handcuffs. For which in Italy I will be tried for vilifying Islam; that is, for an offense of opinion. (An offense that carries a sentence of three years in prison; none of which will be served by the Islamist caught with explosives in his cantina). Books, ideas, for which the “Caviar” left, the “Fois Gras” right, and even the “Prosciutto” Center have denigrated and vilified me, putting me in the stocks together with all who think as I do. That is, together with the sensible and unprotected people who are defined by the radical-chic in their frivolous talk as “the riff-raff of the Right."

Yes, it‘s true: In newspapers that in the best of cases pharasaically opposed me with a conspiracy of silence now appear titles using my concepts and words.–“War Against the West.”; “Cult of Death”; “The Suicide of Europe”; Wake up, Italy! Wake up!“ Yes, it’s true: Though without admitting I wasn’t wrong, the ex-secretary of the Democratic Left now submits to interviews in which he declares that “these-terrorists-want-to-destroy-our-values”; that “this-slaughter-is-facist-in-nature-and-expresses-hatred-for-our-civilization”. Yes, it‘s true: In speaking of Londonistan, the section of London where some 700,000 Muslims live, the newspapers which at first gave comfort to the terrorists–going so far as to make excuses for their crime are now saying what I did when I wrote that in each one of our cities exists another city. A subterranean city; equal to Beirut when it was invaded by Arafat in the 70s. A foreign city that speaks its own language and observes its own customs; a Muslim city where terrorists go about their business undisturbed and, thus undisturbed, plan our deaths. The rest is now spoken of openly; even Islamic terrorism, something that was carefully avoided in order not to offend moderate Muslims. Yes it’s true: Now, even the fifth columnists and the imams express their hypocritical condemnations, their mendacious loathing, their false solidarity with the relatives of the victims. Yes, it’s true: Now, thorough searches are being made in the cases of the accused Muslims; suspects are arrested; perhaps it will even be decided to expel them. But in substance, nothing has changed.Does the matter of the One God really suffice to establish a concord of concepts, of principles, of values?!? This is the point, in the unchanged reality of post-attack London that perhaps troubles me the most. I am also troubled because it goes along with, and thereby reinforces that which I consider the error committed by Papa Wojtyla: not to fight as much as he should have, in my opinion, against the illiberal and anti-democratic–no, cruel–essence of Islam. During these last four years, I have done nothing but ask myself why a warrior like Wojtyla, a leader so singular who contributed more than anyone else to the downfall of the Soviet empire and, therefore, of Communism, showed himself to be so weak towards a disease worse than the Soviet empire or Communism. A disease that, above all, targets Christianity (and Judaism) for destruction. I have done nothing but ask myself why he did not inveigh openly against what was happening (and is happening), for example, in Sudan where the fundamentalist regime was practicing (and is practicing) slavery. Where Christians were eliminated (are eliminated) by the millions. Why he was silent about Saudi Arabia where anyone with a Bible in hand or a cross around his neck was (and is) treated like a scum to be put to death. Still today, there is that silence I don’t understand, and…

---

Naturally, I understand that the philosophy of the Catholic Church is based on ecumenism and on the commandment “Love-your-enemy-as-yourself.“ That one of its fundamental principles (at least theoretically) is forgiveness, sacrifice, turning the other cheek. (A sacrifice I refuse not only for pride; that is, for my way of maintaining my dignity, but also because I believe there is a motive of Evil on the part of those who do evil.) But there also exists the principle of self-defense or, instead, legitimate defense and, if I’m not mistaken, the Catholic Church has made use of this principle more than once. Charles Martel turned back the Muslim invaders lifting up the crucifix. Isabel of Spain tossed them out of Spain while doing the same. And at Lepanto there were even Papal troops. In order to defend Vienna, the last bulwark of Christianity, in order to break the siege of Kara Mustafa, there was also, and above all, the Pole Jan Sobienski with the image of the Virgin of Chestochowa. And if those Catholics had not applied the principle of self-defense–of legitimate defense–we, too, would be wearing the burka or the calabash. We, too, would be calling the few survivors infidel dogs. We, too, We, too, would be cutting off their heads with the halal knife. And Saint Peter’s Basilica would be a mosque, like the Church of Saint Sofia in Istanbul. Worse: the Vatican would be Bin Laden and Zarqawi.

Thus, three days after the latest massacre, when Pope Ratzinger renewed the theme of dialogue, I was astonished. Your Holiness, I speak to you as a person who admires you very much. Who loves you, because you are right about so many things. Who, because of this, is mocked along with those nicknamed “devout atheist,“ “sanctimonious layperson,“ “clerical liberal.“ A person, above all, who understands politics and its necessities. Who understands the drama of leadership and its compromises. Who admires the stubbornness of faith and respects the renouncements and generosity that it demands. But I must pose the following question all the same: do you really believe that the Muslims would accept a dialogue with Christians, or with other religions, or with atheists like me? Do you really believe that they can change, reform, quit planting bombs? You are a very erudite man, Your Holiness. Very cultured. And you know them well. Much better than I. Explain to me then: When ever, in the course of their history–a history that has lasted for 1400 years–have they changed and reformed?

Oh, neither have we been, nor are we, angels. Agreed. Inquisitions, defenestrations, executions, wars, infamies of every kind; as well as Guelphs and Ghibellines without end. And if we want to judge ourselves severely, it’s enough to think about what we did sixty years ago with the Holocaust. But afterwards, we applied a little wisdom, of course. We thought about what we had done and if for no other reason than in the name of decency, we bettered ourselves a little. They have not. The Catholic Church experienced epochal changes, Your Holiness. And again, you know this better than I. At a certain point, it is remembered that the Church was preaching reason; thus choice; thus the Good, thus Liberty, and she ceased to tyrannize. To kill people. Or constrain them to paint only Christs and Madonnas. She understood laicism. Thanks to men of the first order, a long list of which You are a part, she leant a hand to democracy. And today, she speaks to people like me. She accepts them and, far from burning them alive (I never forget that up until four hundred years ago the Holy Office would have sent me to the stake), she respects their ideas. They do not. Therefore, there can be no dialogue with them. And this does not signify that I want to promote a war of religion, a Crusade, a witch hunt, as imbeciles and frauds. (Religious wars, Crusades–me?!? A non-religious person? Go figure. Like I’d want to incite a religious war or a Crusade. A witch hunt–me?!? Being considered a witch and a heretic by the same laypeople and the same liberals, go figure. Like I’d want to start a witch hunt. It simply signifies that to delude one’s self about them is against reason. Against Life, against one’s own survival. And woe unto those who take them into their confidence.

[phrygianslave_the_wi (phrygianslave the wise)]

So, Muslims, upset at the implication that they are evil and violent, respond by calling for the death of the Pope. Enough is enough, already. There’s no point in reasoning with these people, or treating them as reasonable anymore. They’re just an enemy to be dealt with until they’re no longer a threat.

You’re being ironic here, right?

[Uccisore]

Not knowingly, phrygianslave.

[Mastriani]

Fundamentalism will not allow for change.

Death is the only cure for blatant stupidity, failure to see such, is the weakness expected of the human mind.

Islam will remain, as will its’ proponents.

[scythekain]

@Mastriani

Fundamentalism will not allow for change.

Death is the only cure for blatant stupidity, failure to see such, is the weakness expected of the human mind.

Islam will remain, as will its’ proponents.

[Mastriani]

Instead of childishly posting an emoticon, try being an adult and just putting it in text.

Or have you nothing of use to type?

[scythekain]

@Mastriani

Instead of childishly posting an emoticon, try being an adult and just putting it in text.

Or have you nothing of use to type?

before calling others childish read what’s been posted, instead of posting asinine remarks about the survival of a violent religion.

Islam will remain, as will its’ proponents.

US OR THEM.

I choose us. Now move out of the way.

[scythekain]

@Mastriani

Instead of childishly posting an emoticon, try being an adult and just putting it in text.

Or have you nothing of use to type?

You have more at stake than I do though… reletavist pansies like yourself will be the first on the chopping block when the muslims take over. When they go to shut down the secular schools of thought in the west will you still stand by such asinine assertations mastriani?

WHAT WILL IT TAKE TO WAKE THE WEST UP?

Yes, it‘s true: In speaking of Londonistan, the section of London where some 700,000 Muslims live, the newspapers which at first gave comfort to the terrorists–going so far as to make excuses for their crime are now saying what I did when I wrote that in each one of our cities exists another city. A subterranean city; equal to Beirut when it was invaded by Arafat in the 70s. A foreign city that speaks its own language and observes its own customs; a Muslim city where terrorists go about their business undisturbed and, thus undisturbed, plan our deaths.

READ…

The truth will set you free of your relativistic ways.

The alarm clock has been ringing for 15 years plus now…

WAKE UP!

[Peter_Kropotkin]

"‘This war was a religious war, finally one sees that
clearly, a war between light and darkness, truth and
falsehood, christ and antichrist.z’

Deitrich Eckart Early friend of adolph hitler, coined the
term third reich, Hitler felt so indebted to eckart,
he ended Mein Kampf with a tribute to him.

“I believe my actions is in accordance with the will of the
almighty creator.”

adolph hitler, mein kampf, page 46

The path to hell is paved with feelings of “us vs them”.

Kropotkin

[Uccisore]

Yes, if only Nazi’s had internet message boards to post on, then we’d all have something in common with them.

[Club29]

This may be irrelevant… But I was listen to another one of my Ravi Zacharias podcasts and someone was asking him a couple of questions about islam… he went into alot about it but one thing that stuck out in my mind was he said that he had 5 good friends who were scholars, who opened up the koran for studies, all of them have disappeared off the face of the earth.

If islam is going to proclaim itself as truth it should be opened up for scrutiny.

[Peter_Kropotkin]

Hitler once remarked “if the jews did not exist, we would
have to invent them” November 10, 1933 in berlin

This is one of the most revealing
comments on Nazism. Nothing creates more unity than a
common enemy. The hatred of jews was the back bone of
hitler’s power. And the new hatred against muslims is a
new attempt at power by…

Kropotkin

[Uccisore]

Yeah, neat. So one time Hitler said something that can be interpreted to be kinda sorta like something I’m saying. You know who cares? 12 year olds, and people with the mentality of 12-year-olds.
If it could be shown that Hitler believed the exact same thing as me about some point of ethics or philosophy or politics, you know what it would prove? It would prove that the sun even shines on a dog’s ass once in a while- the bastard was actually right about something.