On Race

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In a world dominated by growing populations and diminishing resources, where space comes at a premium and more and more peoples are asked to coexist within smaller and smaller spaces, the need for equalitarian ethical systems becomes vital and essential to survival and continuing growth. Without it the inevitable conflict and implosion would result in a return to past conditions or in a period of chaos and deconstruction.

It is, therefore, natural that ideologies and theologies that preach a harmonious coexistence and a passive demeanor are to appear first in societies and cultures where overpopulation forces a need for demureness and peacefulness. No surprise then that Buddhism and Hinduism were to come to be first in places such as India and China or that, later on, they would take hold, in a mutated and diluted form, in the west under the moniker of Christianity. Where open spaces and frontiers exist, all ideas of equalitarianism and altruism are blasphemous, whereas in environments with no such frontiers they become sacred and holy.

We live in such a period of no frontiers and little open spaces.
So, such ethical systems, as the before mentioned, are crucial in soothing over human distinctions and differences by finding commonalities with which each individual, if it is indoctrinated early on, must replace natural tendencies to perceive what is different from it as ‘not of its kind’ with an overarching morality that makes it perceive all as part of the same and all differences a matter of detail with no other significance. In crowded environments all deviations are swept under the carpet, they are steamrolled into conformity and ignored on principle. This is how stability and harmony are maintained and ensured, morality becoming the glue that keeps contradictory elements of differentiation in union and balance.

Anything that differentiates or hints at any divergence from a norm or points to inferiority or superiority must be quelled and surpassed on moral, humanitarian grounds.
In our modern world this flattening of humanity persists with the dominance of democratic, non-aggressive or passive-aggressive political, theological and ideological systems that is leading to the slow extermination of all divergent cultures, besides the dominant western, North-American one, appropriately called globalization {Americanization}. Any culture or ideal that preaches isolation or superiority or a desire to remain distinct must be eradicated in the name of continuing peace and prosperity.
They call this the opening up of markets in a classic case of Orwellian linguistic distraction.

Current events in the middle-east and elsewhere and the widespread clashes between civilizations that are occurring presently throughout the world can be seen under this light of forced conformity to a dominating ‘norm’, in this case exemplified by the single global superpower, but are also occurring between lesser secondary regional powers {China, India, Russia, an emerging Europe}.

It is this trend of equalitarianism that is force-feeding us an ideal human condition where no physical or intellectual differences are easily accepted to mean anything relevant or decisive. Any differences in performance or behavior are easily explained away by blaming specific life events or special environmental conditions in the hope that an underlying pattern isn’t perceived or made known and so the sense of oneness and similarity isn’t disturbed or put into question. Where talents and strengths are awarded to the individual all weaknesses and failings are excused away by pointing to childhood circumstances or blaming it on this or that special circumstance, disease or syndrome.
The ‘modern’ western disease of unbridled irresponsibility and the consistent unburdening of every individual from accountability concerning personal actions and behaviors are telling and the consequence of the extreme need to preserve the artificial sense of uniformity and oneness.

This is more so the case in matters of race and color.
I would admit that external physical traits do not necessarily mean a difference in intellect or in spirit but neither would I say that it doesn’t. What I would say is that physical characteristics do point to past environmental conditions that may have persisted over a period of time that resulted in physical alterations of appearance.
But why is it that physical alterations exclude intellectual ones as well?

We are all the sum of our pasts and it is this past that determines and limits our potentials in all areas of importance. It is true that each individual must be evaluated on his/her merits but it is also true that general physical commonalties do not exclude general mental commonalties. If it were not so then all science would be impossible and disciplines such as psychology, anthropology, sociology, biology etc. would be impossible.

Also there is some confusion around the delineations of race, particularly in our present world of mixing and commingling, but nevertheless external discernable characteristics still prevail and are easily distinguishable. Although this assimilation is resulting in shades of racial characteristics and a resulting degree of differentiation much less distinguishable from past times, where geographical barriers and technological levels ensured racial isolation, it is still relatively easy to notice physical racial characteristics in specific humans that hint at ancestry and lineage.

THESIS

If we are to believe current anthropological theories, we are all descendant from an original species that came to be somewhere in Africa in the distant past. This ancestor of ours, eventually evolving into a homo-sapient, had the qualities necessary to become a dominating species, in its local setting, that inevitably lead to an unprecedented population explosion that forced migrations into new geographical areas of unclaimed territories. This forced expansion of human dominance pushed the periphery of this migration-wave into harsher environments and eventually resulted in an alteration of physical appearance.

But why do we assume that the alteration was only limited to physicality? If, for example, long-term exposure to less extreme sunlight resulted in smaller melanin levels in the skin causing discoloration or a loss of pigmentation, why should we not also consider the possibility that other environmental circumstances may have not also resulted in other chemical physical alterations causing perhaps intellectual or psychological differences as well?

Why? Because it is too controversial and disturbing to the status quo to do so, and so science, being dependant on funding from the system itself, limits its scope of speculation and exploration and pays lip-service to the powers that demand conformity and non-confrontation. The educational system becomes a disseminator of acceptable forms of knowledge that do not contradict the popular norms too much and a business more concerned with becoming self-sufficient, popular and wealthy than in nurturing thought and minds.

But I digress.

As human populations adapted to new inhospitable conditions and generations were raised under new weather and nutritional conditions, their outward manifestations also changed to mirror this environmental alteration. Meanwhile back in the original ancestral places of sub-Saharan Africa the alterations were not as necessary and so no great evolutionary changes happened, beyond the slow natural evolution caused by chance mutations and small climactic and social transformations.

If diversity and challenge is the mother of modification then the lives, of these humans existing on the fringes and the frontiers of human expansion, were hard and unforgiving and they were pressured to become creative and cunning in order to survive, widening an ingenuity gap between them and those still populating areas that were more ‘natural’ and ‘comfortable’ for the human species.

If we could study two twin brothers where one is forced to leave home and survive in the cold, cruel outside world while the other was allowed to continue existing in the comforts of his place of birth, then we can assume that if a decade later the two were to be reunited there would be a perceptible difference between the two. One, being challenged to survive or perish in circumstances it was not previously aware of, will exhibit the strength, wisdom, worldliness and cunning of one that has met a challenge and survived it while the second will exhibit the stagnating effects of remaining within the environment it was born and raised in.

This separation and reunion can be said to have occurred in the human family.
Centuries later, after a segment of humanity had been required to adapt to inhospitable challenging environments and after this had lead to the creation of great civilizations and cultures, the departed brothers returned to the home, this time as conquerors, explorers and dominators to find their siblings still in the same state they had left them in; stagnating in a pool of superstition and primitiveness that was the consequence of an absence of need.
The historical events afterwards are all well known.
The weak become fodder and the tools of the strong.

It is true, as I said previously, that each individual must me measured using his/her personal merits on a case by case study but physical similarities do not exclude, but reversely include, the possibility of there being mental similarities as well between individuals that exhibit the same external characteristics or the same traits of pedigree.
If dog pedigrees can be bred to behave in like manner with similar intellectual levels and physical traits, using only external cues, then why is this breeding not possible through more natural means?

The easiest way to study a phenomenon isn’t to look back in time into its history or by speculating on what influenced what in what degree, but to study the final result and the conclusion of this historical voyage.

Although racial qualities does not ensure levels of achievement it does determine level of potential achievement in the same way that being born to tall parents does not make certain the final height of the offspring but it determines the potential height if the environmental circumstances remain constant and generous.

I wrote this a while ago so some additional comments are necessary here.

The strategy of equating any position which dares to mention the possibility that human beings are determined and that these determinations are not correctable by nurturing over a generation or two, or that are not easily overcome, with hatred or with those fanatics that propose violence to anything that is beneath them or that is different than them, is a typical one.

It is a simplistic attempt to dismiss without having to think or to argue.

Any position that threatens our established comfortable norms or goes agaisnt our learned moralities must be evil by default. It must be caused by dysfunction or a demented mind unable to integrate within human norms.
In other words a mind that resists social and cultural integration.

But that’s not the only strategy.

We also have those that, unable to think for themselves, are avid quoters and researchers of any position that provides them with support, so that they do not have to think for themselves.

Another strategy is that of excuses. Blaming it all on everything but the actual cause. An attempt to redirect the responsibility onto anything but ourselves.
Why have women been unable to produce anything comparable to male thoughts and innovations and ideas? It must be their fault.

Why have no Negroes been able to produce anything comparable to the great advancements in western and eastern civilizatinos? It must be this and that, but it is never them.

All are made innocent victims of circumstances and all responsibility is placed on another.
Even criminals, nowadays, are explained by blaming it on their families.

We are so eager to avoid nature that we must place it all on nurture, because here things are correctable and man is already free from all his past. in this way man has already risen above his heritage, his past, his nature, and he is no more an animal but a rational human being.

We can certainly see how rational man is, everyday, can’t we?

We like thinknig of ourselves as healthy and productive parts of society because these priorities have been ingrained in us from birth as our primary goal and our highest value.
We cannot think agaisnt these premises, feeling the world disappear beneath our feet or feeling vulnerable and terrified at the mere idea that our beliefs are no more than inventions to keep us sedate and comfortably numb.

Some of these values flatter us, offer as relief from the viciousness of nature and her ways. We could not cope without these delusions and m,an-made constructs.

In time the lie becomes the truth and what was once ridiculous is now perfectly sensible. we have been sheltered from nature, from reality, to such a degree that we now reference human inventions and creative myths to support our illusions.

We no longer look at nature and reality, we look into another’s perspective of nature and into artificial worlds to establish our facts.
The worlds comes to us second-hand and with its own political spin.

Stupidity reigns as a necessary condition for harmonious coexistence and hedonism wins out over truth.

This I agree with, accept for the ‘great’ civilizations and cultures…that’s debatable. Also:

Are you saying that people of certain races can only reach a maximum level of achievement? The brain of the European and the brain of the African can’t be all that different in the grand evolutionary scheme of things. On the average I’m sure you can say things about the achievements of people of different races, but any one person from any race can achieve as much as anyone else.

Can an individual dog exceed its genetic heritage and be anything it wants?

Your reasoning leads us to the absurd conclusion that the effects of the environment are superficial and that any entity can be anything it wants if it is given the opportunities.
Can a man born into a short family or a short race reach any height he wants if he is given he right nutrition?

If physical potentials are difficult to exceed then why are mental ones easy? Are we to separate mind from body to achieve this absurdity?

But let us suppose this is fact.
What dos this say about the concept of species?

Can a chimpanzee have the same mental potentials as a human?
If not why not, if we accept that individuals with different backgrounds can?
Is not the difference between a human and an ape one of heritage and genetic isolation resulting in a splintering of our common ancestry?

Not at all. I’m saying that a 7 foot man can come out of 5 foot parents. It’s unlikely, but it happens. An extremely intelligent person can come out of very stupid parents. They may be anamolies, but you can’t impose a limit on any one person of any one race because anamolies exist, even if on the average they’re not as ‘intelligent’ a race or don’t ‘achieve’ as much as other races.

Achievement is a very vague qualifier, by the way.

Also, the mind is one of the very few things we have control over improving. We may be born with a set level of intelligence we can climb to no matter how much we work, but that’s not to say our intelligence limit is set by our parents.

Wrong. The gene has to be present.
There has to be some ancestor with an above average height.

Can two elephants give birth to an albino elephant?
Why?
Can two elephants give birth to a red elephant?

Only if there is some ancestor that was intelligent and only if you consider stupidity ignorance.
Two parents can have extraordinary analytical potential but their environment didn’t allow them to reach their full potential.

How do you propose that species evolve?
Do two dogs have the potential to give birth to a wolf?

I know, but I didn’t want to pressure you on that point.
you, presumably used it as a social evaluation.

Yes, but you overestimate its power.
The brain is the product of the same processes and so it determined by them.
If you cannot be nurtured into growing wings and flying then how can you be nurtured into overcoming your mental potentials?

Nature determines the up[per and lower limits of our potential. nurture determines where within these limits you will fall.

Your heritage determines everything from hair color to height to weight, but for you, and for many more, it cannot be accepted that it determines mind.
Here is where they contradict themselves and fall into dualistic excuses.

You can’t selectively choose when mind/body is one and when it is compeltely different.

What about mutations? Or pituitary gland disorders like gigantism?

Also, you could induce gigantism in someone if you really wanted…you’d just have to do hormone replacement on them before they hit puberty to keep them growing. It’s unhealthy, but hey you can do it.

I’m not saying you’re incorrect on the average. I don’t have any data on it, but I’d agree that race has an effect on potential intelligence. Someone on here mentioned the intelligence of Asians > Caucasians > African. I don’t think it’s a horrible thing to make a statement like this, it could very well be true (and being at college I believe that the Asians are way more intelligent than the rest of us! :laughing:).

However, that doesn’t mean single people can’t break the race mold. Mutations had to happen from our African ancestors to make intelligence delianations, so if anything that proves that the African race is especially subject to mutation.

Oh, and two dogs can’t make a wolf because they’re different species. All humans can mate with each other and make fertile offspring. In this respect, all humans are the same. There’s too much commanality to say that one race does not have the potential to make a mutant superbrain.

Homosexuality is a mutation.
What about them?

A malfunctioning gland redirects or stunts potential.

Also, you could induce gigantism in someone if you really wanted…you’d just have to do hormone replacement on them before they hit puberty to keep them growing. It’s unhealthy, but hey you can do it.

Okay.

The mutations had to be a reaction to the environment.
A challenging environment stimulates mental growth.

I’m giving you an example to make a point.

Genetic isolation, coupled with environmental effects, genetic mutations and natural selection splinters one group from another and creates species.
If the isolation is not long enough the splintering is not complete and so the two groups are similar enough to reproduce with one another. Lion and a tiger, for instance or an African and an Asian elephant.

If it persists the splintering is more profound, like a horse and a donkey.
They can reproduce but the offspring is gentically unfit.

If it persists even longer then its even greater and we get the many species.

Ah, here’s the problem, though. Genetic mutations are random. Useful mutations just get passed on because those animals survived. A random mutation can happen anywhere; it’s not a result of the environment. The dissemination of those genes is a result of the environment.

And they are passed on if they are succesful and offer an advantage within the particular environment.
If the environment is relatively easy then survival is easier and so even those that lack the mutation will propagate.
The mutation is diluted through interbreeding again.

If my speed offers me a minimal advantage but the prey available does not require all that much speed, or there are a variety of prey which can offer me nutrition, then even those with lesser speed will be succesful hunters and they will reproduce.
Furthermore there is less reason to nurture my speed, by practicing and developing it and then passing my methods of trainnig on to the next generation.

But if my speed is decisive because the only prey available is fast, then those with an even slight slower speed than mine will perish and my fast genes will dominate the future generations.
Only my genes will be part of the future generation. No dilution.

Furthermore different environments will make different mutations successful.
The Cheetahs quickness will be unsuccessful on mountain environments.

I just said that. So you agree genetic mutations are random then. That means they can happen in any race at any time.

Also, survival of the fittest is really not an issue anymore for developed nations; both good and bad traits get passed on because most people have the opportunity to breed (unfortunately). Any ethnic group now living in a developed nation has the opportunity to develop the same genes as any other.

Did you read my response?
If the environment does not offer a necessity for a mutation then its advantage is minimal and it is diluted by remixing with those that lack it and still survive.

If for example a mountain goat develops a heightened mind, but it isn’t as dexterous as the average. Then it’s advantage is only minimally relevant since the more dexterous goats will reproduce no less, if not more, than it. It’s genes will be remixed within the gene pool.

It’s only when the mutation is decisive, such as in more challenging environments that require ingenuity.
Then those with a slight disadvantage will perish or will not reproduce. This will mean that the vast majority of the next generation will carry the mutation. There’s not much dilution.

That’s because the system shelters the individual from nature and natural selection. No culling occurs and morals and cultural rules prohibit prejudices of force monogamy.

Does every species have that same opportunity?

The intelligence gene in a dog is not the same as that in a human, is it?
Why?

If we take your overoptimistic logic as fact then any mutation can occur within any population group within any species.
Intelligence is just as necessary to a cat as it is to a human.
Have you seen any college graduating cats?

Why not?
Why would certain mutations be excluded from some gene pools and why hasn’t intelligence evolved at the same rate in Gorillas as it has in humans? Were they excluded from the mutation?

Furthermore, let us take your logic again.
Where are these mutations, these geniuses in the Negro population?

Stop with the reducio ad absurdum. We can only compare within the same species. Comparing the intelligence of a rat to a human’s intelligence is absurd and you know it. Comparing a few rats to other rats, however, you may find an exceptionally intelligent rat amongst a group.

Also, while certain breeds of dog or horses may be more intelligent than other breeds, human beings hardly have the disparity that animal species have, so don’t try to compare the intelligence of a chihuahua to a retriever, either.

Intelligent negros? Well, you said achievement first, so we’ll throw a few categories of achievement, not just intelligent:

Barack Obama - political achievement
Spike Lee - artistic achievement
Michael Jackson - unfortunate problems, but an artistic genius
Any number of jazz or blues musicians
Stevie Wonder - musical genius
Bill Cosby, Chris Rock, Dave Chappell- comic genes
Oprah Winfrey - …well…she did something right
Tiger Woods - insane drive (not golf drive), sports achievement
Any number of NBA and Football players and coaches
George Washington Carver - peanut butter, nuff said
Errol Henderson - successful political scientist and an all-around knowledgeable person
Colin Powell - successful military man, intelligent
Martin Luther King Jr. - genius rhetoric
Clarence Thomas - supreme court justice

…do I need to go google search now? These achievements can show intelligence in any number of ways.

Anthem…

After more than 6000 years of recorded history and with Africa’s population exceeding 800 million black people you can only name a handful of 20th century, American celebrities?

So it’s a matter of degree, right?

You just don’t want to accept it, no matter how large or small the disparity is.
You can say the disparity between man and gorilla is larger than man and Chimpanzee…and? Do we have the same potential as a Chimp?
Do you?

I asked you how you explained, given your analysis that there is no uniformity in all species, if mutations arise with equal frequency within all groups?
Silence.

This is going to be funny.

These are geniuses comparable to Confucius or Plato or Einstein or Newton?
Oprah Winfrey?!!!
Oh my you are digging deep, aren’t you?

Tiger woods is what yo come up with (of mixed race by the way) to put next to a Galileo or to an Aristotle? Are you serious?
You take this posting seriously? This represents your understanding?

You think genius is achievement?

Clarence Thomas?
He compares to Aristotle or Heidegger or Lao Tzu?

You searched and what you found were American celebrities taking advantage of white culture to make money or were promoted because they disciplined themselves to white moralities and cultural ideals?

You are kidding, right?

You associate genius, expanding human thought and human awareness with inventing peanut butter or political figures!!!
Obama is a genius? He’s smart, but a genius?
Why because he impresses you and Americans?

Oprah Winfrey teaches white suburban females to read, she started out doing smut T.V. and she’s a genius because she became rich taking advantage of gullible stupid American women?
Are you serious?

Michael Jackson comparable to a Mozart?
Is Timberlake also a genius?
How about Britney Spears?
M&M?

Fitty Cent?
You forgot that Negro genius.

Is Castro a genius?
Is Lenin?

You associate intelligence with historical figures?
How about Hitler? He was pretty succesful and almost conquered the world, is he a genius?

It explains why you just don’t get it.
You are making a fool of yourself and you are exposing your position as flawed and its culturally determined myths.

Americans are funny.

Can anyone name one philosophy coming from Negro civilizations?
Did none of them wonder about existence?
Why not?

One genius that can be compared to a Kant or a Goethe or a Michaelangelo or Da Vinci or Beethoven or Shakespeare or Nietzsche or a Spinoza or Einstein, soemthing that doesn’t make you all look like simplistic Americo-centric pop-cultured, culturally indoctrinated babies.

A genius, children is someone that impacts human history for all time.

Not some two-bit entertainer pop-figure an inventor of a spread or a myriad political activists trying to promote their own cause and reaching cult-figure status because gullible sheltered individuals have been brought up to consider them special.

Leander: I only named a handful because that’s all I felt like. You could help if you want instead of making disparaging comments.

Satyr: You’re the one using vague qualifiers like ‘achievement’. And since when does being a philosopher = intelligence? Orpah Winfrey, though she may not be very intelligent, has made more of an impact than you will ever make on history. Ever.

Why does this matter? Look below.

Justin Timberlake is a musical genius, by the way, unfortunately. So is Madonna (both regular and musical)…not Britney though.

When I get back from class.

The predominant group sets the standards. However, political dominance does not mean dominance in any other endeavor. There may be differences among races. There certainly are among individuals.

So, who’s better at what? It just depends on what you think “better” is. In the West, we are taught that our values are “better” - that (yeah, white) European values are better. We build better nations, and better weapons. If that’s “better” - okay, it’s us. Do you think it’s better? Then it is.

The all-too-brief existence of John Coltrane alone “justifies” the entire black race.

Except that “race” is a meaningless concept to begin with. Unless you want it to be meaningful.

Sorry, Satyr, but “race” is nothing something that we are, it’s just something that we do. We can organise the world any way we want. Species are important if we are raising food sources. Races are important if we are collecting feathers.

She made history?
Where, in your little universe of U.S.A.?
She’s not intelligent but she’s a genius?

That makes sense.

Isn’t it weird the names you mention are all from the U.S. and twentieth century cultural figures? You think anyone will remember Oprah Winfrey in a thousand years, or care?

What does this have to do with me?
Again, having been shown as a fool you turn to personal attacks.

You googled to find Negroes (most of which have mixed blood by the way, being offspring of slaves, but let us forget that part), to compare to all the names i posted and you came up with Tiger Woods and Martin Luther King and Oprah Winfrey?
Is Hitler a genius? Lenin? Pol Pot?

Maybe we should put them next to the pantheon of immortals.
How American are you?

Make sure you do some research to explain why there is no uniformity if mutations pop up equally within all groups and environment has nothing to do with it.

We are trying to establish the qualities of human blood lines.
It may be an uncomfortable subject but it is the subject.

Funny that all these Negroe “geniuses” were all produced in the U.S. and were probably mixed given the slave owner practics.

And now we compare Oprah Winfrey, in classic American style, with Aristotle or Einstein.
Why?
Because she made money and in our culturally prejudiced mind, money equals value and genius.

The peanut butter guy, made money and so he must be comparable to Confucius.
Obama is currently famous and if he doesn’t become a president will soon disappear into oblivion, but he’s comparable to Marx who rocked the world with his Communist Manifesto.

We’re now calling Jack-O a genius.

This is remarkable.

First we want to redefine Egyptians are Negros, because our politically-correct agenda demands from us that we associate at least one great civilization with the Negroes, so as to explain why none exist, even though they have the same potentials as any other group and because we can’t use the ‘they were oppressed’ bullshit for any events before the slave-trade.
Then we google famous American pop icons and present them as geniuses comparable to the greats because in our American culture they made it big…and of course making it big makes you a genius.

Taking advantage of dumb Americans is now a sign of great intellectual prowess.
If all else fails, make insulting references to me.

Precisely.

A race can actually peacefully disappear through successive mixed marriages. There is nothing inherently worthy about preserving a “race” at all or even discussing it.