On the Misattribution of Fallacy

You can find a lot of information on the web on what fallacies are and how to identify them. This is only natural- we want to find fallacies in other people’s arguments, so the web is going to provide a lot of tools to do so. What I find is seldom discussed, however, is how one can go wrong when calling out a fallacy- so much of this happens these days, especially since ‘fallacy’ became a popular part of internet forum speak, that I thought I’d go into to some detail on when NOT to call out a fallacy. Here are some loose rules to keep in mind when reading another person’s argument.

1.) People naturally avoid fallacies most of the time.
Yes, even THOSE people- those people that hold that position that you think no rational human being can hold. A true fallacy is a violation of common sense as much as technical sense, and people know to avoid them- they don’t FEEL right. This is true even of people unfamiliar with philosophy. As such, when you think you see an obvious, glaring fallacy in somebody’s argument, (especially circular arguments, ad hominem arguments, and arguments from authority which in truth people almost never make, but are constantly ‘discovered’ by critics), the first thing you should be thinking is that the problem lies with you- that you misread the argument, or that you are making one of the mistakes I will describe below.

2.) Stick to analyzing what’s relevant.
This causes SO much trouble in discussions. Fallacies only matter when they are relevant to the argument the person is trying to make. An obvious example:
“My mother said that if you take guns away from the people, you take away their only means of protecting themselves from their own Government.”
When confronted with the above, you should NOT call argument from authority. What you have above is an argument against gun control. The fact that the speaker is relating where they heard the argument is simply not pertinent. To call this a fallacy and to focus the conversation on that is a sidetrack that wastes everybody’s time.

 A less obvious example:

 "Hume believed in God, you moron."

 Contrary to very popular belief, the above is NOT an [i]ad hominem[/i]. The person is basing no argument or position on the assertion that you are a moron. While obviously you might not want to continue interacting with somebody who addresses you in such a fashion, if you DO continue to speak with them, be aware that the above is not a fallacy. In order for [i]ad hominem[/i] to be committed, you'd need something like this:

"You are a moron, therefore Hume believed in God."

 Where the assault on your character is given as evidence of the position taken. As you might expect, true[i] ad hominems[/i] are either very rare or very subtle.  In short, keep in mind that a statement is not fallacious unless it is a premise upon which an argument is actually built. People say things off the cuff or to flavor their speech in one way or another all the time, and there is no use in getting caught up in them. Further complicating matters, is this:

"I don't believe you because you're a liar". 

While this is basing an argument on a statement about your personal character, it's a [i]relevant[/i] aspect of your character and may not be fallacious.  
Oh, and basing an argument on a [i]complimentary[/i] comment about somebody's character is an ad hominem too. People seem to forget this. 

3.) Fallacious argument forms are often still good arguments.

 Most arguments you will see on these forums (and in life)  are not deductive- they do not mean to imply that the conclusion is necessarily, unavoidably true given the premises. They are [i]inductive[/i]- they mean to imply that the conclusion is more likely than not, or more likely than it would have been otherwise given the premises. Another way to put it is that most fallacies are useful to debunk the [i]validity[/i] of an argument, but most arguments on these forums aren't seeking validity, they are seeking [i]cogency[/i]- that their premises lend support to their conclusion.  So for example, 

 "Well, just about every scientist believes in the existence of human-caused global warming, so it probably does exist." 

Well, clearly an argument from authority- but guess what? It's probably a GOOD argument from authority- as long as the speaker isn't saying that anything most scientists believe [i]must necessarily be true[/i], it is perfectly reasonable to point out that the consensus of experts is a good reason to believe something.
  When you're about to call out a fallacy, one of the things you should reflect on is, "Is this behavior I'm about to call fallacious something that every human being needs to do in order to get on in their daily life?" If so, it's probably a fallacious argument form that occasionally (or often, or nearly always) lends cogency.  That's right- when applied to induction, a fallacy is only a particular form of argument that should be scrutinized harder. It may well be cogent, rational, and good to use. 
    An example I encountered recently is the Slippery Slope Fallacy.  This is a very difficult fallacy to diagnose correctly specifically because the argument [i]form[/i] is used in perfectly reasonable ways all the time.  The argument [i]form[/i] is nothing more than arguing that 

If A happens, B is likely, and if B happens, C is likely, and if C happens, D is likely, (insert as many steps as you like) and since D is terrible, we ought to avoid A.

But this form of argument by itself isn't problematic at all, and is very often true- if you start writing bad checks all over town, then people will stop accepting your checks, and if people stop accepting your checks, you may find yourself in desperate need of a purchase one day and no way to pay for it. Therefore, you ought to avoid writing bad checks.  It's the Slippery Slope form, but it also happens to be true. Note that in my check example, I didn't bother to support any of the steps given- that doesn't make the reasoning bad, but I should be prepared to support "if you write bad checks all over time, then people will stop accepting your checks" if I am called upon to do so.  

 So when is Slippery Slope [i]actually[/i] problematic?  Two situations come to mind. 
    A.) When a person is making a [i]deductive[/i] argument, and assuming each step in the argument is [i]absolutely certain[/i], and thus the conclusion is certain from the original premise. In fact, people almost never do this. 
    B.) When a person fails to take into account the compounding probabilities of each step in their chain, how those probabilities diminish the whole, and assume that  D is much more likely given A than in fact it is. This happens somewhat more often- a person worries about D being likely, even though it's just one of many possible outcomes to A- they haven't actually examined the[i] likelihood[/i] of D given A, but they are acting as though the likelihood is high because that particular scenario troubles them so much. 
  As you can see, there is some subjectivity here. When you aren't talking about deduction, fallacies are a great deal more complex than wikipedia or some other single source would have you believe. If you aren't clear on the difference between deduction and other forms of argument, it's best to keep your mouth shut about fallacies in the first place, because understanding this is absolutely essential to understanding them. 

4.) Be Charitable.

Nine times out of ten, the above confusions can be avoided simply by assuming your 'opponent' is at least as smart as you are. Ask yourself "Would I make a mistake as basic as what they seem to be making"?  or "If I said what they just said, what would I mean?" If you're going to bother to discuss something with somebody, you should be trying to find out what they really mean, how it's relevant to what you think, and how best to interact with it.  Trying to 'one-up' people based on the technicalities of how they phrased something is precisely the kind of behavior that gives 'arguing on the internet' the reputation it has. 

5.) And for those of you who just REALLY love to spot fallacies…

I may as well identify a legitimate fallacy that you can look for when talking to people. In my opinion, the single most commonly made fallacy that goes unidentified is equivocation- specifically equivocation between stipulated and connotative definitions of words. This is endemic in political speech, and shows up quite a bit in other sorts of arguments too.
For example, an anti-abortion advocate may argue that abortion technically fits some stipulated or dictionary definition of ‘murder’. Having so argued, they will then go on to assume that abortion is thusly a hideously evil act that should be prevented at all costs. Or better yet, they will continually refer to abortion as ‘murder’ (because they showed it fits one definition), while taking it for granted that murder is always wrong, thus condemning abortion by implication.
This is fallacious (in the bad way)- if the stipulated definition of ‘murder’ did not include that murder is always a hideously evil act, then you can’t change your definition later to include it just because that’s what most people think when they hear the word ‘murder’. Arguing that something fits a certain definition entails nothing other than what is explicitly stated in that definition. Everything else has to be demonstrated. Another popular example would be ‘discrimination’- technically, ‘discrimination’ just means to prefer or choose one thing over another. Using this loose definition to show that something counts as ‘discrimination’, then implying that the act in question is immoral (because ‘discrimination’ is these days used mainly to talk about immoral things) without further argument would be fallacious.
An easy way to spot this is when somebody appears to be hung up on arguing about the definitions of words, especially when the words in question have strong moral or emotional implications. When this is happening, you can bet somebody involved is going to commit an equivocation.

Life is a fallacy.
We’re good at hiding that, though.
Some people enjoy rhetoric, some don’t.
Personally I don’t see rhetoric as very philosophical, but it appears some philosophers put deep roots into rhetoric during their thought practice.

Just like an apple with a piece missing is still edible,
arguments and ideas with fallacies are still valuable. They’re just partially valuable.
That is how most language works.

I think I disagree with 4.) This is not a philosophical principle, it’s a procedural device dreamt up by Donald Davidson, mostly to prevent article writers from calling bullshit on other article writers, thereby promoting endless series of journal articles that drown in circumspection, over-accommodation and politesse. Philosophy is about language - it’s about saying it right - clearly and elegantly. A “charitable” reading of Kant would render his writing coherent, but we know better. I have seen many an article that merely guesses at what he was on about, based on a charitable reading - this produces a journal landscape littered with someone-or-other’s charitable interpretation of some else’s charitable interpretation of yet another’s charitable interpretation of a writer who never made sense to begin with.

And no one wants to say “Kant is, in the end, incoherent.”

And by the way, Hume didn’t believe in God. He did believe in fitting in and getting a job at a university.

I am all for the ad hominem. Philosophy is perspectival: arguments are produced by people, they are indicative of individual perspectives–they do not float over to us as if down from heaven. That said, I understand the necessity of banning this sort of objection on an internet forum.

I’m afraid that I have to agree with that one.

It doesn’t matter for what reason someone else might have chosen to coin the phrase, “be charitable”, the reality is that when communicating, it is essential to make the attempt to fully understand the intention of the speaker. Even computers have to do the same thing. Communication is a two-way street in that both the speaker and the listener must make the attempt to clarify exactly what is being communicated. By “being charitable”, one is asking himself and offering the notion that perhaps the speaker meant something a little different than was most obvious to the listener. Many times, especially online, the error is in the eyes of the beholder, the reader.

I’ve probably been the most outspoken on this site- getting banned a few times, for stating that most fallacies are academic inventions and that I don’t believe in them.

It’s not that I am incapable of telling when someone is using deception or bad logic… I can, I am quite good at it, excellent actually, ten times better in person, can sniff you out like a blood hound… it’s that it doesn’t really matter to me in the context of a philosophy discussion. People come together to discuss. I know by changing the seating of the tables from circular to square to a triangle I will change the dynamics of the discussion. If I sat opposite (back before I ran a group) of the chair, I could dominate the discussion, if I sat opposite of the loud mouth, excitable professor who steamrolled everyone, I could control him. I noticed everyone related to others in a discussion, having micro discussions where they would build together on thoughts in little spurts… and the others side would do the same… both sides building it up to a point- too often a all to obvious point that I could see coming a hour in advanced. Especially if you’ve debated with them in the past.

People lie, they lie boldly, and so what? It’s only harmful usually when others suddenly act shocked and start crying in shock about it. People really love to lie about the Catholic Church in San Francisco- like on this forum it’s the Jews… and I let both arguments largely go… only rarely have I jumped in. It’s because they have a agenda… but they don’t quite know what’s motivating the agenda in them. What’s causing them to get excited, what’s motivating them to pick on certain people in the group over others. I’m straight faced… suppressed seventh cranial nerve makes my face poker all the time… and never had trouble getting security work via it… someone is always looking for a face like mine to let people know enough is enough… so it’s easy for me to just hush and fade into the background and be ignored, like a easter island statue, just hugging the background until I decide to become spontaneously alive. Oftentimes in the past I choose not to- especially if it was a old argument I destroyed on a previous occasion- people would look at me curiously wondering why I would just sit there looking at my tea cup… It’s because I knew the arguments front to back. This is what people don’t grasp… it’s not the knowledge being passed in philosophy that matters so much- it does, especially when it involves technics, but it’s a secondary matter that piggybacks a much more important phenomena- that the motivations for the arguments continue on until they cease… and they only cease in lethargy, or acceptance of some sort from another having a ‘ah ha’ moment. It’s a squirrel phenomena in and of itself. It’s not the pursuit of power in a Nietzschean WTP sense of forcing others to share your idea as you would have it, but rather a interpersonal bond of acceptance and usability.

So whatever rejects acceptance and usability on a logical basis a priori I become suspicious of, even if the argument is useless to me, if the people were opposed in the first place and came to stand together later. I’m not talking about preaching to the same choir here… I’m talking about personality clashes resolved. I find it amazing when Argument A can be conducive to people who never had use for A in the first place, and were resistant to it. The logic might be inferior, or incomprehensible from my perspective, but if it’s transmittable, determinable and modifiable to others, it’s a sign it’s exploitable by A KIND OF INTELLIGENCE, and it might lend itself to the formulations of a larger philosophy I may lack, or already see the two ends of and already know. What matters is THEY continue on their evolution. They may either reach the same conclusion through hard building though reflection and discourse and come to my own outlooks and conclusions, or might build that absurdity ever higher until it matches or surpasses my own point of view (I have yet to knowingly see this happen- perhaps it happens all the time and I’m too stupid to pick up on it).

I don’t always have to win every argument, not should I try to. The world doesn’t evolve around me, and philosophy predates me and shall continue on after me. It’s good others try. Some do it for sneaky reasons, but they rarely can understand the motivations for being sneaky in the first place. There is a inherent approach to philosophy hard wired to our species… we accept and we reject others… but those others have a place and use inherent in the genepool… we keep producing them as they keep producing us. We share commonality in this regard, even if we can’t get along. We share the task of humanity, and contribute to it as well as we can. There isn’t a aspect of our chaotic confluence of our modern civilization that isn’t a result of our own thinking processes. My heart of reason tells me there is someone for every problem, be it a individual or a personality type, be it broad or narrow. They will be complicated- for they are humans, and they will accept some rules and reject others.

My opposite that I cannot accept… is the scholarly cry of ‘strawman’ or ‘ad hominid’ in a argument… people get really fucking excited when they call it, and point their fingers at people, and repeat it. Even if it’s a good cause, if it’s a bad argument, I usually get roiled up enough to go on the offensive, and nail the said person calling it. I’ve never once have been beaten in a argument in public debate in person, and can cause even the best to stumble and trip over their thinking. I am conscious of this, and rarely force the matter… it’s unbecoming. Sometimes it’s wise to just sit back and watch others muddle though, and not come to a conclusion (be even more awesome if people would respect my wishes on this point when I get up to leave after a few hours of barely to not talking- people learn after a while I got a whole lot underneath cooking even if I don’t speak)… it does more for them to find their opposites, where their friction lays. It’s natural discourse, they’ve met their match where they are psychologically incapable of breaching. Our psychology dictates this is important. It’s the reason why Plato and Aristotle didn’t get along and were antagonistic, but someone like Boethius could see how they got along and didn’t contradict. It’s what they need to focus on, and the last thing they need is some cock sure idiot fumbling with fallacies he or she was poorly taught and stump people with rejections outside and alien to the progress of the discussion.

Now, do fallacies exist? Yes… it’s indistinguishable from paradox. Paradox is the foundation however of all that is knowable, of all organized knowledge. It’s how our brain works, and there is no form of dialectic that can exist without it… it’s the very engine of all ways of thinking. It’s rather simple if one accepts either Darwin or a Judeo-Christian God… in Darwin’s case were evolving creatures with a history behind us and perhaps ahead of us. In the latter, u ain’t God, and yet and your something similar and something not.

It’s the way the ideal of the philosophies before us interact with paradox. Truth in technics… usability, the search for viability is the only truth worthwhile, and this will change once the truth is examined in other ways, as the mental operators must shift, and thus the range and mean points of the knowledge… it seemingly changes as well in parts under new analysis and associations. The operators for one outlook become floating paradoxes for the next, or become outright invisible. The beginning and end point that is natural for it isn’t the same as before… 1 apple in a economic outlook, using the logic of the Austrian School say… ceases to be the same apple when your stomach rumbles and you remember your starving and no chance of eating and need food now and have no means to money… the austrian considerations of what is apple- a commodity, and how to get it, and who you are in relationship to it falls away under this duress. Timeline seemingly shifts, and it’s just ‘I’m so damn hungry, haven’t eaten forever, where’s the cameras’. Notice the camera isn’t a commodity? It wasn’t even a concern before? Now it’s a operator that’s part of the equation for the end game.

Now… in a way… you’ve seen how the dialectic process in us all can skip around internally. Some or more thief than economist on the whole in life, other’s the otherway around or different completely. A set standard has advantages- it can allow certain frictions to be overcome… but it’s also restrictive to good stewards and farther seeing thinkers and actors on the world stage who can see a bit more of the equations at times… beyond the conflict. They can appreciate it, make sense of it- but will anyone make sense of them without the experience? In life, we must muddle sometimes, we must crash our brows against one another, and find ourselves on the losing side, or confront roadblocks and poor reasoning. This is natural, this is good. This is the foundations of philosophy. Sometimes bad philosophy must be given reign so that good philosophy can continue to thrive. It’s being a good steward, appreciating the mindset of men, and their willingness and motivations to engage one another, even when absurd or predatory, should signal to us we are still working together in a very complex world.

Instead of fallacies of logic, let’s worry more about the absolute truths we can’t live without. The rejection of the other… the eclipse of our monolithic beliefs that we can’t bear to see slighted or overshadowed, what threatens us, and why it’s so scary to us. This is the beating heart of genocide, and the roots of all that is evil in us. Let’s call this out. Let men call things out… even when wrong, but moderate them in considering the paradoxes in their assertions if it seeks violence, and offer them progressive paths away from it, towards rewards in psychological hubs that don’t continue that negative feedback loop to violence. Fallacies for all their designed to do never really manages to pull this off. They seem to, but never stop anyone. We can moderate people, tell them go away or ban them, but it only makes them twisted and more determined. These fallacies underline psychological presumptions held by a small, select class of thinkers who are similar… hardly by philosophers in total, much less the squirming mass of global humanity. It’s a clear and silly failure.

So just stop it, and get on with your lives, and quite bitching about these cadaver leftovers of bad logic administered by fools who rarely have to argue with people not like them.

I completely agree with 4, Ucci. I’ve made this point many times, though not with exactly the same words.

Here is my reasoning for “Be Charitable”:

It is not uncommon for a statement, in any language (though English is obviously the focus here), to be able to be interpreted in multiple ways. One of the examples I always remember is that there was a News Paper article titled “Man Kills Bear With Axe.” Did the bear use an axe to kill the man? Or did the bear kill a man who was holding an axe?

If you’re having an argument with somebody, and a situation arises in which you could interpret the statement in one of two ways, and one of the ways clearly doesn’t make sense, try to see if it would contextually make sense to interpret it the other way. On another forum recently, I made a statement that could feasibly be interpreted in 2 different ways – there was a phrase I used in my post that had 2 meanings. I was responding to another guy who was clearly using one meaning, and I was using the exact same meaning as him to say that the statement he made was incorrect. But, instead of reading my post using the same meaning that he used, and recognizing that I was saying he was incorrect, he acted like a fucking little worm (GOD I hate this) and pretended like suddenly the phrase I was using meant the other meaning (even though nobody reading the conversation could feasibly think I was using the other meaning), because if I was using the other meaning, I was obviously incorrect and he had something easy to attack.

And this is what Be Charitable is for: it means don’t assume someone is saying something stupid when there’s a more reasonable interpretation of what they’re saying. And especially don’t go out of your way to deliberately read it as stupid when a straight-forward reading of it would have produced a sensible meaning. Look at contextual clues: if one of the two meanings doesn’t contextually make sense, then don’t fucking read it like that. If the article says “Bear Kills Man With Axe,” and then you see a picture of a man holding an axe who is being attacked by the bear, then don’t be a fucking idiot. Context clues are there for a reason. Don’t be an ass hole.

Now, of course, there are times when there are 2 possible interpretations, and contextually the dumber interpretation is more likely the one that the person means. That does happen. But when there are 2 interpretations, and the obviously incorrect one is also the contextually irrelevant one, then don’t be a dick. You’re not engaging in philosophy at that point, you’re just trolling. You might as well spend your boring time mailing a letter to the news paper editor saying “Bears don’t actually have the capability of holding axes” if that’s the kind of bullshit you like to pull.

Wow, Uccisore, what an excellent post. The mods should send you a bottle of champagne or something. Here are the first thoughts that came to mind after one reading…

In so much of life there is the real story, and the cover story.

The cover story on intellectual forums is that we are here to think great thoughts, discover the truth through rationale analysis etc.

The real story is that most internet forums are a form of show business. By and large, the people who are fundamentally serious about these topics don’t participate on forums for that reason, forums are not fundamentally serious, they just pretend to be.

All that said, fantasy is a crucial element of entertainment, life is short, and fun is good. On with the show…

 Well if the implication is that you agree with 1-3, then I'm actually pretty happy with myself!  As it stands, I was going more for advice than 'philosophical principle', and I do think charity is sound advice, especially when it comes to looking for fallacies in other people's work.  I agree it can be overdone- your example with Kant is well-taken.  But I don't think we're in any danger of people becoming over-charitable to other people's views here.  
 What we really should be aiming for is that we argue with that people meant to say- this requires a measure of charity, but it requires a bunch of other intellectual virtues as well. 

I would if I thought so! I like the categorical imperative (as a friend), and I like how he defines art. The stuff with the categories and the numena and so on…I think Thomas Reid did all that better.

Ya, I know. As far as I can tell, Hume didn’t profess belief in anything other than backgammon.

Pointing out a person's character when they are making an argument you can't quite see through is a perfectly legitimate move if what you're going for is persuasive speech. In an inductive argument, pointing out that somebody is a liar or a fraud or whatever might have some impact on some particular argument depending on what it is. It's only a hard fallacy in deduction. From what I can tell, people point out [i]ad hominems [/i] because it's the way sophisticated adults say "Stop teasing me!!"

Yeah, Ucci - the others I not only agree with, but might be suitable for a sticky. Perhaps i can hijack them and make them part of my logic 101 thread - with attribution, of course.

To be honest, I believe in some charity. Certainly if it seems likely someone has simply misspoken, it saves time to ask for clarification. And here on these boards, we should be careful that we are not holding another poster to jargon - some philosophical jargon is better replaced with plain language, and some terms are used differently in different contexts and by different writers. And some jargon looks like ordinary language but is not. So it’s often better to just ask, sure.

Then there’s Heidegger, of course.

I did have aspirations to stickihood when I wrote this, ya. Feel free to put the parts of this you like in there, that would make my day.

Just a quibble, but his principle of charity was, as far as his argument was concerned, absolutely necessary for any kind of interpretation or understanding between even speakers of the same language. He didn’t mean it, at least not in the paper that I have in mind, as a way of attributing to an author a better argument than the one he probably intended.

It depends on your goal. If you want to argue against Kant the person, then the principle of charity, understood as a way of interpreting the argument in the most positive way, need not apply. Here’s where history of philosophy is paramount, and why I don’t give much of a fuck about it (though I am conflicted on this point, being a fan of Nietzsche). However, if you want to argue against a good argument, assuming truth is your goal, then you can wish-wash around what the philosopher intended and do some apologetics.

Hmmmm…I’m not sure I want to get started on Davidson, but I wasn’t entirely serious. But I think Davidson did make a lot of stuff up, saw epistemology everywhere, tried to force metaphysics on linguistic philosophy and made almost everyone who bought into his theory a little dumber. I don’t mean to suggest that he is responsible for all the charitable reading going on.

Well, yes I do.

Davidson’s principle was of course a central part of his philosophy of language, his metaphysics of language. While he is for some reason wildly popular with professional philosophers, I think he’s got a byzantine and wholly untenable theory, which has a sort of pop following, which misuses even his almost useless theory.

Be charitable. Headlines can often result in things like–“Boy rescued from snare with knife” or “Girl saved from crash using Jaws of Life.” It’s common in journalese to create such headlines. Imm, being charitable to posters means discovering what it is they’re trying to say rather than immediately debasing them.

What’s often called ad hom, here, is nothing more than name calling. “You are so stupid, I won’t have anything more to do with you.” “Your reply shows you know nothing about the subject under discussion.” “I came to this site expecting intelligent discussion.”

Is inductive reasoning more prone to error than deductive reasoning in logical argument or does each have its place? Perhaps this should be a part of your fallacy discussion.

Btw, uccisore, what led you to choose your screen name? Just curious. :slight_smile:

I was on a Godfather kick at the time, and looked up ‘assassin’ in babelfish or somesuch.

Bumping this because it looks like the information could be useful once more.

To really see fallacies, one has to see things objectivily, which requires the right mind and vast knowledge, high intellect and most of all the rare rational mind.

We all like to see ourselves very rational but it’s sadly very few who has high rationallity. Group think often comes in the way of rational thinking, there is a current thread going on in the psychology forum, dealing with “conformaty” where it’s shown that we can commit total irrational actions because the group sway our mind.

It would be nice if this site would try to implement basic science into the threads made, instead of being total devoid of such basic things.