seriously, use the news searches if you want you’ll come up with the same results, and why is it that you come in here only to post to defend Islam, it’s not like I’m attacking only Islam I’m attacking all religions.
I mean we can look in the bible to see clear cases of subjugation to women and we can do the same to the book of mormon and the quran. does it mean that women are treated that way currently? in some mormonism and some islam sects yes, in some christianity sects yes.
and what’s with this? are you threatening me, because I have a bad opinion of Islam? Are you trying to subjugate my opinion of Islam? if it’s really not based on much truth don’t you think that will come out, and that also if there’s no truth to what I say that you have nothing to fear from me saying it?
don’t assume I have no knowledge Hadj, we’ve gone over this, the knowledge you possess makes your religion seem all good and nice, the knowledge I possess shows the truth. You should never trust the source of your information if they are trying to paint the group nice. It’d be like trusting ford about the firestone problems. “Ah don’t worry about it nothing will happen to the tire.” then your going down the road and POP goes the tire.
I thought about this more, and really you have such a jumble of religious ideas in there I don’t even know where to start. The mayan ones are bad because human sacrifice is bad, the sexual ones, always lead to power issues (just like the sin power issues). I mean, nothing in your post really stands out as “yes this will make a good base for a faith”.
of course I’m one to talk since I think so highly of faith
seriously it’s the old faith argument, no matter how much you believe you can fly your not going to be able to fly.
edit addition:
Hadj, I did a google news search for “Islam Women” and the first article was a positive one. Surely I hope she’s not subjected to female circumcision and saying that though!
This is not an answer to the question, because it supports the idea that you are threatening, Scythekain.
I find this ironic that he would comment on the oppressive perception of Islam and you would react in such an aggressive way so as to reinforce the very stereotype Scythekain already has.
I believe that Islam has serious internal problems as a religion.
There is a very informative article in the New York Times today
“Muslim Scholars Increasingly Debate Unholy War.”
It is obvious that you are sensitive about the nature of your religion, but it is also clear that your own fellow Muslims feel that there is much there to be criticized.
I personally think Scythekain is wrong to speak as though he has authority on the subject and I don’t really grasp the value of his criticism because it is thoroughly undeveloped.
You probably know a number of Muslim women who do not feel oppressed.
I personally paid a compliment to Islam in my original post because of the level of religious passion it has succeeded in illiciting from its adherents.
Maybe a good question is whether that passion would be lost without the doctrines of religious aggression. But, I hasten to add, I am no authority on the doctrines of Islam.
Actually, there are only four central ideas. (1) Hard work, (2) Sexuality, (3) Unity, and (4) Recognition.
I am actually arguing that these are human concepts, not merely religious. They aren’t a “jumble of religious ideas” as you claim, because they are simply a few central themes of humanity. I am looking for a religion that genuinely celebrates those, not merely tolerates them.
I don’t think it is an appeal to “faith” as you are using to the term to simply acknowledge the things that are important to us as human beings. I think this is a rational act of cognition on the human condition.
I never said we should sacrifice humans, but then we already do if you care to pay attention to the history of our nation’s war causes. It is the same. The Mayan were sacrificing life for the survival and security of the state just as we are doing in Iraq.
I have taken formal courses in Mesoamerica, so I’m not shooting from the hip here.
I wasn’t speaking with authority. I said “GO GOOGLE IT!”
if you want research it through other means the results will be the same a majority of women in Islam feel oppressed, and rightly so I think. It’s not just about the clitoral circumcision (which removes sexual pleasure from women, even male circumcision is questionable), it’s about the clothes they are forced to wear to remove their sexuality, (depriving them of their humanity) the way they are supposed to act in public towards the “greater men”. maybe not all Islam sects are like that, maybe the one your in isn’t like that. But that doesn’t mean there are none like that.
If you want to improve the image of Islam the first thing you should do, is NOT threaten someone who tells people to research the religion for themselves. Explain why my opinions about female oppression are wrong, and what the Islam religion is doing to correct wrongs against female-hood.
oh and here’s what else is funny, I did a google news search and posted the results up here and you felt compelled to continue your threat against me. Thanks Hadj.
ok, humanism? I think honestly that what your looking for, humanism that incorporates god, and I believe there is such a thing the Universalists. Give it a shot maybe you’ll like it, me personally I’ll practice humanism sans god.
First of all I would like to apologize for your perception of a threat given from my side. Although, the word ‘warn’ is the best word to describe my previous sayings in reply of your dubious statements (remember you said Islam for having Muhammed like Christianity has Jesus?). Beside that fact, what matters is how people interpret the words and from reading your posts, your understanding of the noun ‘to warn’ in that relevant sentence is different from mine. I’m not a native English speaker and, I should have known that in common folks talk the nuon ‘to warn’ is ike a synonym to the nuon ‘to threat’. I apologize once again.
Secondly, you’re asking me why your views are wrong. I have explained many times before on this forum and people who have read it fully understand the Islamic stance on this issue. You may understand I’m tired of finding my posts once again and paste them again. But for you, scythekain, I’m willing to help you out.
thanks for clarifying, I’ve stated that before that Christ and his apostles eunuched themselves.
BUT, your statement and the one on this website don’t answer the question. Are there Islam groups that practice genital mutilation towards women? Because a group or several groups don’t doesn’t mean there are groups of Islam that do.
for example there are mormon sects that practice polygamy, while obviously not as traumatic as genital mutilation, it’s still heavily controlling to women. And also while not sanctioned by the “official” mormon church, the church has a history of supporting polygamy even though it doesn’t currently. I say that Islam is the same way it has a history of supporting “the talmad” (even though the Talmad doesn’t say anything about genital mutilation, a person who mutilated themselves was considered unclean and not allowed in the temple, it’s in leviticus in case your curious.)
I think I’ll research the topic more to find out where exactly it did originate from.
anyways back to where I was going with this, even though it was supposedly in the Talmad I think early Islam supported the doctrine then later the “main” sect of Islam realized it was bad, that didn’t stop the outside sects from practicing it.
Now I know you say “there is only one sect of Islam” yea, Mormons think the same thing, even though there’s about 50 different variations of Mormonism. Even christianity when it started out in the first 300 years there were at least 50 different versions of the christian church before the Nicaea council, then the church divided up again, because the catholic rule was too stringent.
here’s another question for you. Does your church not believe that you have exclusionary rights to Allah? and that all other churches will go to “hell”?
Whitehead defines religion as a set of primary beliefs with the ability to change one's character when accepted.
You seem to be saying here that the true religion would be one that celebrates what comes naturally to mankind. But, again and again, the more successful religions have been those that promise to [i]transform[/i] mankind into something that would never have come naturally at all, without the special revelation that the religion claims. Is there something, you think, inherently wrong with this attitude? It seems to me that there wouldn't be any point or drive for a merely celebratory religion without this transformative side.
