One by Fours and Philosophy

I’ll use an analogy to express a problem with philosophy, something that happened at work today.

We were trimming out the interior of the porch we built today. David was on the scaffolding and I was at the saw horses below, cutting material for him.

David got to a corner and needed a one by four corner board; he called out as follows: I need a one by four X inches long, square to short of a long 5/12.

I asked him: am I pulling left to right or right to left, which side is the long point on, and is it a bevel or an angle?

He got a little impatient and thought that should be obvious, but was it?

How do I know where he is at, or which corner he needs, of if he’s running the board vertically or horizontally? I’m on the ground below him and can see nothing that is in front of him. There is no way I could know, without explicit directions, what he meant with those instructions, unless I climbed up there and saw where he was putting the piece I would cut.

David failed to realize this and switch perspectives. Had he put himself in front of the horses where I was, and the roles were reversed, he’d be asking the same questions… because he wouldn’t know what I was doing up there or exactly what I needed.

He thought the instructions he gave me were enough for me to properly cut the board he needed because he imagined I knew what he was looking at up there on the scaffold.

Philosophical discussion works the same way. When you present an argument or make a statement, you assume your listener ‘sees what you see’ and is ‘where you are at’ in reference to the thing you are trying to articulate with what you say. You give him a few basic instructions… these are the ‘words’ you use… but you do not explain to him how he is to apply those words to put together what you want, what you are trying to get him to understand.

But there is no getting around this like there is with the material I am cutting. David needed only to give me a few more instructions in order for me to cut the piece properly… but with philosophy, with words, you only slightly narrow down the possible ways in which your listener can understand what you are saying, and put together the proper comprehension for it. But since there is no final product, no end to the instructions themselves (see aporia), there is always more than one way to interpret what is being said, and you never get the right piece of material (understanding) from your sawman (listener).

It is very difficult to understand that when you use a word, especially a word in a philosophical context, how you comprehend that word is not the only way that word can be comprehended.

For instance, you use the word ‘morals’. But how many definitions for that word exist in philosophy? Countless, almost. So you narrow it down; Kantian morals, or Nietzschean morals. Now you are expecting your listener to have the same understanding as yourself of what each of these philosophers mean when they use the word. You realize this isn’t good enough… so you narrow it down some more. But all the narrowing only brings you to places that need to be narrowed further, and so on.

When you have an idea in your head and want to explain it, you are up on the scaffolding. Your listener is down at the saw horses. He doesn’t see what you see. You have to come down and stand in front of that material there at the saw horses to become aware of the fact that what is up there by the scaffolding cannot be seen from below. You have to switch perspectives, suspend for a moment what you think, and see the argument or statement from that position.

Wittgenstein used a similar analogy of a builders language, what he called a primitive language in which no mistakes in understanding can be made. In doing this he wanted to make an allusion to the kind of confusing language game that philosophy can often be, by comparison. The analogy I gave in this post is an attempt to demonstrate this.

countdown to iambiguous coming in here and making a post with the word “dasein” in it…
3…
2…

Hey guys, it’s Iambiguous. Zoot said I could use his account… mine’s messed up or something, I can’t seem to log in. Anyway, I think these problems are overcome if we understand that Dasein, our being-in-the-world, shares a phenomenological being-thereness with language… in such a way that meaning not only accrues to language, but language also accrues to meaning. Heidegger emphasizes the importance of poetry as a way to understand the deeper significance we have in the world, in such a way that we transcend the myopic limitations of science and logic. We ‘feel’ the truth, there is a becomingness of what is true through our intimacy with language… the free form of expression we give to our authentic being when we speak poetically. And Wittgenstein was a prat.

philosophy is a neat lil game of eyeballing

xrite.com/online-color-test-challenge

and witt was super sexy

Look at him.

“Say something. Please. One philosophical word, buddy. Just one. I dare you.”

Seriously though, here’s the problem with language.

You are able to give someone precise instructions when the instructions that you give her will in fact enable her to accomplish the task. Precisely.

For example, a doctor can be be taught how to perform an abortion by following the precise instructions of a someone who is qualified to teach her.

But suppose a woman is looking for instructions on how to do the right thing when she is burdoned with an unwanted pregnancy.

What is the language available to us in order to instruct her as to what her moral obligation is?

That’s really all you need to remember about language:

Some things can in fact be accomplished with a precise set of instructions and some things cannot. In some respects logic is applicable to human interactions and in other respects it is not.

If you don’t agree, let’s talk about.

He said it not me.

I think it’s sexist to just use feminine pronouns instead of saying he or she or she or he. If it’s wrong to default to he, then it’s equally wrong to default to she. I mean come on. What’s the deal with that?

In a word: [size=200]DASEIN[/size]

Now, let’s get back on topic.

Is a belief that x=x dasein?

Goddammit, now I gotta go take a shower.

What particular x?

For example:

Suppose someone is asking you for instructions on how one goes about buying and selling stocks. Now, is there or is there not a reasonably precise language that you have at your disposal in order to effectively communicate that to him?

On the other hand, suppose someone is just not sure if buying and selling stock is the “right thing to do” – but in a moral sense. He is having reservations about capitalism. He has begun to see it as a predatory, dog-eat-dog, fuck the other guy, me-me-me ethos and, having explored the moral philosophy of Kant in turn, he’s not sure if he can square capitalism with the “categorical imperative”.

Is there a language available here that might offer him any precision in accomplishing that task?

Or, instead, is this just the sort of thing that Wittgenstein speculated may well be beyond the precision embedded in the tools of philosophy? Logic, for example.

Also, how would you actually go about encompassing your own point of view here such that the manner in which I construe dasein, conflicting goods and political economy is effectively rendered…irrelevant?

Why don’t you give it a go too, P.

The same one that’s on the other side of the equals sign.

Again: this is the philosophy forum. It’s not “What Are you Doing?”

So, do you have something more substantive to contribute here or not?

So you can’t answer?

There is a neat little obscurity about Witt, in his ‘lost years’. he would sit hours and hours in front of a movie screen and watch and watch and watch the film roll, REGARDESS of what was playing. Later on he came to his senses , and woke up to none sense.

He would watch the process of the meaning carrier in motion. His first work was about the movie content. His later work was about the way in which any content could exist.

Coming to his senses was also a bit giving up on the monsterly task he now was beginning to discern.

I did answer it. I made the distinction between language that can be communicated precisely because the information being communicated can be communicated precisely. And language that reflects instead conflicting value judgments that are derived subjectively in the form of personal opinions or political prejudices.

If “x” revolves around mathematics or the laws of nature or empirical fact or the rules of language, dasein dissolves. At least as I understand the meaning of it.

Now, if you understand the meaning of it differently, fine. But how is the manner in which you interpret it relevant to the distinction I made above regarding the buying and the selling of stocks?

You’re really no fun man.