organs of truth: 'Os' is Death.

I was nineteen and I wanted to know about hidden truth. I learned quickly how to get by it, I combined techniques of different enhnicities with some mastery, but then a bigger problem posed: what to do with it when you have it? The age old quest for truth has so far led me to a single thing useful. The knowledge I have obtained is this: it must be god be damned important, this thing Im looking for - because Ive been looking at it for my whole life.
The logic of this premise escapes any sensible being, but is being sensible?

The Quest has led me to a few speculations about the nature of my objective. Truth can be scientific, but only because science is a willful creation, an interpretation applied to an objective: subjectivication. WIth man, the will is for the first time placed outside of the animal. His physical being extends into different time-space objects as he creates tools in which he distributes his will over tzhe course of millennia.

Whether scientific, religious, practical or entertaining, truth has to be willed, it doesnt exist any other way. Ithas to be willed into existence.
Whether truth is subjective, as the realization of infinite love of the mystic saint, or physical, as the creation of an object, doesnt matter - it is always different from the soulless fact which nobody experience of which truth it is an interpretation.

The question which has puzzled me is where this truth is formed. By which ‘organ’ it functions. Which chakrah, if you will, which electromagnetic spinhub. Where does the electric ity take form into chemicals. Do animals experience truth?
Deleuze called for ‘a body without organs’, but I think the opposite is more powerful. Magic is in the specifics of trickery, mastery shows in the details, but why? What exactly is going on?

“You” is going on and on and on. It has to have something solid to hang on to or it’s afraid of sinking in the vastness of that which it cannot know and having no way of trying to find out.

In an instant as I walked into Food Town for some beans and potatoes the truth came to me. In that instant in the most minute span of time I saw the truth. At the end of the whisk i knew. But I could not explain it. Right there in the parking lot pushing a grocery cart, it came. In that most minute second, all was clear. There is no way to discribe it so continue with the shopping, pick the best tomatoes and peppers and make some salsa for tonights dinner.

What bridged the gap?

When reality stared into my headlights I swerved (I read that word somewhere) and bounced off the wall. What had happened? Had something happened? I saw no more eyes staring at me, in fact I saw nothing… hm. I pondered this. Sounds were all around me, clanging and ding-donging, and also there was a smell, faint but definitely different from what it normally smells like in my car… and on top of that there is the sensation of hanging upside down.

Some realities definitely require seat belts. :wink:

The color red, pain, jump the gap. How is it the mind presents these.How jump the gap so to speak yet they can not be discribed.

You don’t actually know anything about that thing called truth, except what you are projecting on to it. The knowledge you have about it is the experience. It goes on and on. That’s all. What that really is, you have no way of knowing.

(I repeat the same thing over and over)…

The question then becomes, “Is there any chance of getting out of this knowledge of truth to truth?”

If you are lucky enough (it’s only luck), to get out of this trap of knowledge, the question of truth is not there any more. The question arises from this knowledge, which is still interested in finding out the truth of things, and to experience directly what that truth is all about. When this knowledge is not there, the question is also not there. Then there is no need for finding any answer. This question which you are posing is born out of the assumption that there is a truth, and that assumption is born out of this knowledge you have of and about the truth. … the knowledge is the answer you already have. That is why you are asking the question. The question automatically arises.

What is necessary is not to find out the answer to the question, but to understand that the question which you are asking, posing to yourself, and putting to somebody else, is born out of the answer you already have, which is the knowledge. So, the question and answer format, if we indulge in it for long, becomes a meaningless ritual. … If you are really interested in finding truth, what has to dawn on you is the reality that your very questioning mechanism is born out of the answers that you already have. Otherwise there can’t be any question.

First of all, there is an assumption on your part that there is a truth, and then, that there is something that you can do to experience that truth. Without the knowledge, you have no experience of truth, that is for sure. “If this knowledge is not there, is there any other way of experiencing the truth?” You are asking the question. The question goes with the answer. So there is no need to ask questions and there is no need to answer.

I’m not trying to be clever. I’m just spotlighting what is involved in the question and answer business. I’m not actually answering any questions, just pointing out that you cannot have any questions when you have no answers.

What standards do you hold “knowing” to, exactly?

Jonquil, you got that right. Too bad the vehicle doesnt come with those. Or does it? ive never noticed them.

Erm finishedman, i appreciate what youre trying to do, but thats not the sort of truth i was talking about or looking for. I think. I realize full well there is no truth in or of itself, only pertaining to this or that, something, whatever.

However, i see truth (as i think i explained) as any existent thing on which the attention is focussed (thereby making it into a thing, which otherwise it would possibly not be). But this does not preclude (if that is the right word) hierarchies of importance or significance, or weight, so to speak, of truth.

Do you know the unbearable lightness of being? i am not referring to the movie, but to the feeling. This is what accompanies the zen like state of truthlessness and selflessness. All you can do is be supremely happy and indifferent. But this is unbearable when youre not sitting on a moutaintop. In the ‘real world’, which ironically the zen man would call thecillusory one, you need truth, this or that, whatever, something. It can (by objective standards must) be trivial, it should just not feel trivial to you, referring in this case to me, and everyone else who has a life and plans on taking it somewhere, anywhere.

You see the value and meaning is in the journey, but you cant have a journey without a goal. ‘This is she!!!’
‘thou talkest of nothing’
yeah i know, but is important nevertheless.

Actually, lots of people have journeys without goals. It’s called randoming. (That’s a word I got from Mark Twain’s Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court). And even some who think they have goals find those goals shifting and changing without notice or warning. Look at Wagner’s Parsifal where space and time suddenly shifted for them. The universe definitely has its ways, and those ways do not always line up with our own as we think they are. Sometimes I think randoming is the way to go; that way the world can random with you. O:) And that would be with or without seat belts. lol

And baby Jesus have I randommed, and been randomized in the process… but I do not necessariy mean a physical goal, it can also be ‘freedom’ or ‘experience’ or ‘something new’, you understand, any kind of objective. Even getting some fresh air, or loosening the joints.
One of these crashes certainly does that, loosening the joints…

If randoming is itself the goal, then isnt the subject subject to too much control over his state of journeying? I fint he most pleasant way to travel is to have a small goal, small but important, easy to attain but requiring travel over a great distance. Like, to drive a thousand miles just to get a good sausage or wine, from that farm I liked when I was there ten years ago. With a goal like that, the journey is always pleasant and unpredictable. But when I travel with no goal at all except to travel, then I have to think at literally every crossing, I have to make a choice every two minutes. That just makes it impossible to really enjoy the motion.

That’s cool. I think you should do whatever works.

Me, I’m the type that just likes to go, without knowing where something is necessarily. However, whenever people were with me, I think it would drive them crazy. But since I was just happily driving around and noticing the sights around me, I had no idea that they might not be so happy. lol That randoming thing might better be done alone, methinks. Anyhoo, I even seem to enjoy getting lost, even when I have a goal… just more opportunity to explore, I guess. I also noticed that since it doesn’t bother me, I always manage to find my way again when the time comes.

Like what jakob says …

If you gain something from it allright, if you don’t you don’t. Otherwise, if you keep trying to gain something which you cannot gain (maybe something that someone else has like enlightenment or such) and it forever eludes you, it eventually burns itself out and you are left with the truth as it is.

Can you sense a demand in the tone of that? Someone or something wants to control. It resides somewhere in thought. But we know that thought in and of itself is lifeless. Yet, there resides something in the mechanism of thought that is driving you and exercise power or authority over the energy that is exuded from the life inside. Does it have something to do with what you have come to know about what others are doing around you?

What if that thing (everything that all people have felt, experienced and known) is thrown out of your system (so to speak). … and you are left touching life at a place where no one has touched it before?


Bravo Maestro.
Yes, gain is the objective.

Reminds me of Shawshank Redemption:

Dear Red. If you’re reading this, you’ve gotten out. And if you’ve come this far, maybe you’re willing to come a little further. You remember the name of the town, don’t you?
I could use a good man to help me get my project on wheels. I’ll keep an eye out for you and the chessboard ready. Remember, Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies. I will be hoping that this letter finds you, and finds you well. Your friend. Andy.

I can barely sit still or hold a thought in my head. I think it’s the excitement only a free man can feel, a free man at the start of a long journey whose conclusion is uncertain. I hope I can make it across the border. I hope to see my friend and shake his hand. I hope the Pacific is as blue as it has been in my dreams. I hope. … Red.

Nice, finishedman… Im pleased Im able to remind you of that.
The first time I took my car on a trip through southern Europe I guess I did feel like I was getting away from prison.

We look for and find what we already know. The past provides us all the answers. So, it seems, the truth lies in our past and all that we judge as truly worthwhile that we‘ve experienced before. Yet, as per Jonquil, we use some of our givens to guide us to areas where we hope to discover wonders that we have not experienced so far. Some knowledge was given to us about interesting places to go and things to do. Hope leads to motivation to travel which leads to reaching our destination where we finally experience the ‘truth’ of the culmination by actually being there.

That then is added to our past memories from which we may draw from to find something more interesting to do. At this point I think about where boredom resides in us. Besides that, is boredom a mechanism for growth of some kind? Is it a natural signaling from somewhere in consciousness to seek out something resembling Truth? Or does truth reduce to the predilections we have and the pursuit and maintenance of them?

Some get pushed easily beyond our borders, others may never fully experience the purely energetic state of not knowing who one is as the only viable political stance towards the situation at hand. Some professions make newness possible, others smother it in the dustbin.

I would say it is.
In the proverbs thread of TheStumps, Pascal was quoted:
“All human evil comes from a single cause, man’s inability to sit still in a room”

I dont know why Pascal speaks specifically about evil, also much of human good comes from this, boredom.
I wonder if it is known where and how boredom occurs in the brain. That would be pretty interesting area for experimenting.

I think the former is the raw material, and the latter the result, the lastable continuity that makes a truth known, spread, and in the final case law. Both exist, one is momentary, subjective and inspired (??? whatever that may mean) and the other is continuous, verifyable and physically present… :open_mouth: