Our Fucked-Up Economy, A Sitcom of Epic Proportions

[Impenitent]

@Churro the Viscous

I’m sure a some amount of you already know how money and banking works.
Many of you, as well as the vast majority of the population, don’t.
Reason: Public schools aren’t going to teach this shit.
This undermines the government, so why would the government pay to have this taught?

ask yourself one question:

WHO RUNS EDUCATION IN AMERICA?!?

it isn’t the republicans.

-Imp

[Maquis]

I have some money questions C.V., any thoughts,

1. If all the money and debt in the world were redistributed equally, would it equal zero?

2. Can every “dollar” be traced back to it’s creation? Can we track a Euro back through being a Frank and a dubloon or something before that?

3. With respect to the existence of the money system, it there an ex nihilo problem?

4. Should gold and yachts be included when we sum up money?

5. Do you live on less than a dollar a day? How do you budget for that? I live on 20 - 30 $/ day [all total]; how many dollars a day do you live on?

6. How much money do you have?

[someoneisatthedoor]

@Impenitent

@Churro the Viscous

I’m sure a some amount of you already know how money and banking works.
Many of you, as well as the vast majority of the population, don’t.
Reason: Public schools aren’t going to teach this shit.
This undermines the government, so why would the government pay to have this taught?

ask yourself one question:

WHO RUNS EDUCATION IN AMERICA?!?

it isn’t the republicans.

-Imp

Andrew Dickson White was a member of The Order and the first
President of the American Historical Association.

Anthony Sutton, Introduction to the Order.

This is beyond Orwellian.

[someoneisatthedoor]

@Maquis

I have some money questions C.V., any thoughts,

1. If all the money and debt in the world were redistributed equally, would it equal zero?

No, there is far more debt than money in the world. But the debt is (mostly) created out of nothing. So it can go back to being nothing.

2. Can every “dollar” be traced back to it’s creation? Can we track a Euro back through being a Frank and a dubloon or something before that?

Nope.

3. With respect to the existence of the money system, it there an ex nihilo problem?

How do you mean?

4. Should gold and yachts be included when we sum up money?

No, because goods themselves are valuable, money is not.

5. Do you live on less than a dollar a day? How do you budget for that? I live on 20 - 30 $/ day [all total]; how many dollars a day do you live on?

No, with tremendous difficulty, I’m not sure of the exchange rate.

6. How much money do you have?

Considerably less than my share of my nation’s debt. Of course, it’s a debt that will never be paid (because if it is paid then it would end the control bankers have over nations, peoples, governments), but I resent having money taken off me by a government I didn’t vote for to be given to a bank I’d happily see destroyed, to further line the pockets of the elite superrich.

[Knox]

The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing.

Banks don’t create money out of thin air. Credit represents the value of time, which is a product that can be bought and sold. That seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding of this piece.

But, if you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers

The reason why people are slaves to banks is because they happily sell themselves into slavery (you know, so they can have that big particle-board house that they can’t really afford just like Mr.Jones across the street).

A lot of people don’t seem to get this. Banks don’t come to your house and force you to take a loan. No, it’s you the consumer, who walks into their house begging for a loan. It is a slave trade, and the slaves created it, because they wanted it that way.

[humegotitright]

@Knox

The reason why people are slaves to banks is because they happily sell themselves into slavery (you know, so they can have that big particle-board house that they can’t really afford just like Mr.Jones across the street).

A lot of people don’t seem to get this. Banks don’t come to your house and force you to take a loan. No, it’s you the consumer, who walks into their house begging for a loan. It is a slave trade, and the slaves created it, because they wanted it that way.

Whilst partially this is true, banks also facilitated it. People (mostly) didn’t live outside their means until banks told them it was ok and safe to do so.

And it’s not that people ‘happily’ sell themselves into slavery, it’s that realistically what choice do you have? I’m all for living within your means, but how many people can afford a home without a mortgage?

[humegotitright]

@Maquis

I have some money questions C.V., any thoughts,

1. If all the money and debt in the world were redistributed equally, would it equal zero?

2. Can every “dollar” be traced back to it’s creation? Can we track a Euro back through being a Frank and a dubloon or something before that?

3. With respect to the existence of the money system, it there an ex nihilo problem?

4. Should gold and yachts be included when we sum up money?

All been answered

5. Do you live on less than a dollar a day? How do you budget for that? I live on 20 - 30 $/ day [all total]; how many dollars a day do you live on?

No, I live on considerably more than that. I don’t budget at all really. If I want something and I can afford it at the time I buy it. On an average day I probably spend £5-10. Add to that £11.50 mortgage, £5.70 for shopping, £3 for gas and electricity, £10 in petrol and car insurance, £4.90 council tax and about £5 for sky, mobile, insurance and other things, I would say about £50-55 all in a day. And that doesn’t include any luxuries I might buy. Granted though all these figures are pure estimates of the top of my head.

6. How much money do you have?

Minus a lot. £2000 student overdraft to pay back, £2000 student loan to pay back. £69000 mortgage outstanding. Oh to be debt free

[Maquis]

@someoneisatthedoor

@Maquis

1. If all the money and debt in the world were redistributed equally, would it equal zero?

No, there is far more debt than money in the world. But the debt is (mostly) created out of nothing. So it can go back to being nothing.

These days I’ve had several conversations on this topic with banker acquaintances, they all and exactly strongly disagree when I bring up the money-as-debt-argument (roughly the topic of C.V.'s article). They say there is more money in the world than debt. They say money is not debt.

[someoneisatthedoor]

@Maquis

@someoneisatthedoor

@Maquis

1. If all the money and debt in the world were redistributed equally, would it equal zero?

No, there is far more debt than money in the world. But the debt is (mostly) created out of nothing. So it can go back to being nothing.

These days I’ve had several conversations on this topic with banker acquaintances, they all and exactly strongly disagree when I bring up the money-as-debt-argument (roughly the topic of C.V.'s article). They say there is more money in the world than debt. They say money is not debt.

I take my figures from the CIA world factbook. And money is debt if the money is borrowed.

All currency is borrowed. But of course, many bankers don’t realise how the things works. Just like many economists.

[Maquis]

@someoneisatthedoor

I take my figures from the CIA world factbook.

Hmm?

@Churro the Viscous

If they’re just tellers, there’s no reason to think they have any particular expertise.
If they’re in high places, like owners or CEOs or advisors, they’re probably just lying.

This occured to me too.

[someoneisatthedoor]

@Maquis

@someoneisatthedoor

I take my figures from the CIA world factbook.

Hmm?

Where’s the ambiguity? As to the question of whether there’s enough money in the world to pay the global debt, I’ve taken figures from the CIA world factbook (very interesting read) and come to the conclusion that there isn’t. Not by a long way. The debt of my own country is something like 12 years GDP, maybe 13 now the Labour government have followed in the US administration’s footsteps and borrowed half a trillion pounds to subsidise banks that are wealthy enough to be buying other banks and are obviously quite solvent. And in 12 or 13 years time, it will be even more than that.

I think it’s a fucking disgrace, quite honestly. And mos def part of a plan among a banking cartel.

guardian.co.uk/politics/2004 … ss.economy

Capitalism is a danger to itself
Only a new emphasis on ethics can restore confidence in the system

* Evelyn de Rothschild
* [b]Tuesday July 13 2004[/b]

[Impenitent]

emphasis of ethics indeed…

an emphatic embrace of envy and greed might help…

-Imp

dancing bananas are sublime

[Maquis]

@someoneisatthedoor

@Maquis

@someoneisatthedoor

I take my figures from the CIA world factbook.

Hmm?

Where’s the ambiguity? As to the question of whether there’s enough money in the world to pay the global debt, I’ve taken figures from the CIA world factbook (very interesting read) and come to the conclusion that there isn’t. Not by a long way. The debt of my own country is something like 12 years GDP, maybe 13 now the Labour government have followed in the US administration’s footsteps and borrowed half a trillion pounds to subsidise banks that are wealthy enough to be buying other banks and are obviously quite solvent. And in 12 or 13 years time, it will be even more than that.

It looks not so simple to me, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

@someoneisatthedoor

I think it’s a fucking disgrace, quite honestly. And mos def part of a plan among a banking cartel.

Yes, it looks that way. Like many who answered the question, “6. How much money do you have?” in the negative, in the future, everyone’s net-worth will be totaled in terms of debt, with a due date, that’ll keep the slaves busy.

@Impenitent

emphasis of ethics indeed…

It does look like there is a moral overtone to this thread. I can’t say I really feel the banks are in the wrong. I more blame the people who take loans and accrue debt. Or more exactly maybe, the people who use money?

[someoneisatthedoor]

@Maquis

@someoneisatthedoor

Where’s the ambiguity? As to the question of whether there’s enough money in the world to pay the global debt, I’ve taken figures from the CIA world factbook (very interesting read) and come to the conclusion that there isn’t. Not by a long way. The debt of my own country is something like 12 years GDP, maybe 13 now the Labour government have followed in the US administration’s footsteps and borrowed half a trillion pounds to subsidise banks that are wealthy enough to be buying other banks and are obviously quite solvent. And in 12 or 13 years time, it will be even more than that.

It looks not so simple to me, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_public_debt

I was talking the total debt. Not just the governmental public debt.

@someoneisatthedoor

I think it’s a fucking disgrace, quite honestly. And mos def part of a plan among a banking cartel.

Yes, it looks that way. Like many who answered the question, “6. How much money do you have?” in the negative, in the future, everyone’s net-worth will be totaled in terms of debt, with a due date, that’ll keep the slaves busy.

Well, it was predicted by the de facto head of the most powerful banking family of the last two hundred years, and all the banks that have so far gone to the wall/been bought out have not been part of the cartel. If JP Morgan Chase collapsed, that’d be a story.

It does look like there is a moral overtone to this thread. I can’t say I really feel the banks are in the wrong. I more blame the people who take loans and accrue debt. Or more exactly maybe, the people who use money?

I blame those who engineered this crash so they could
a) buy up competitors at incredibly reduced prices
b) further enslave governments and people to the central banking system

Needless to say, these people are both bankers and other people.

[Knox]

They do indeed create money out of thin air.
If I have 5 dollars, and you want 10, and I loan it to you by giving you a note saying, “This note is redeemable for 10 dollars from Churro the Viscous,” did I not just create 5 dollars?

When a bank loans money that it doesn't have, it is creating money.
That's exactly what it is.
It's inflation via loan.

I understand all that. I took Econ 101 just like everybody else and I was told the same crap, that banks create money. However, it took me all of about a week to figure out what’s wrong with that explanation.

Banks don’t loan money that they don’t have. They loan money that they project to have. The reason why you can loan me $10 when you only have $5 is because Tommy down the street owes you the other $5. However, when previous loans are defaulted on, the money projected is not there. That’s the consequence of a bad loan. And just like a crappy car depreciates rapidly over time, a crappy loan depreciates the value of the dollar (which is what inflation is). However, it isn’t the same as “money out of thin air.” What it is, is “money taken from the future and brought into the present.” That’s a big difference.

[someoneisatthedoor]

@Knox

@Churro the Viscous

They do indeed create money out of thin air.
If I have 5 dollars, and you want 10, and I loan it to you by giving you a note saying, “This note is redeemable for 10 dollars from Churro the Viscous,” did I not just create 5 dollars?

When a bank loans money that it doesn’t have, it is creating money.
That’s exactly what it is.
It’s inflation via loan.

I understand all that. I took Econ 101 just like everybody else and I was told the same crap, that banks create money. However, it took me all of about a week to figure out what’s wrong with that explanation.

Banks don’t loan money that they don’t have. They loan money that they project to have. The reason why you can loan me $10 when you only have $5 is because Tommy down the street owes you the other $5. However, when previous loans are defaulted on, the money projected is not there. That’s the consequence of a bad loan. And just like a crappy car depreciates rapidly over time, a crappy loan depreciates the value of the dollar (which is what inflation is). However, it isn’t the same as “money out of thin air.” What it is, is “money taken from the future and brought into the present.” That’s a big difference.

Not so big a difference, and the exception to this is central banks, who can literally create money backed by nothing.

[Knox]

nm