I had a nice list comparing Jesus and Mohammad on a lot of issues like that, it was quite revealing. Stuff like “Muhammad murdered people, had sex slaves and raped children” “Jesus never murdered anyone, didn’t have any sex slaves and never raped any children”.
@HumAnIze I would hazard a guess, that most people on the planet would not need to choose a religion first, because most people on the planet follow their indigenous religion that they were born into… unlike the great displaced, whom you must be referring to.
_ “there are 450 to 500 million positive atheists and agnostics worldwide (7% of the world’s population) with China alone accounting for 200 million of that demographic.”
I think his whole point is that if you are truly interested in the meaning of life … if you acknowledge that hunger for meaning … you’ll investigate it with an open curiosity and follow the inquiry where it leads. At worst the hunger is not filled with anything that truly satisfies. But it’s at least possible you find satisfaction & true meaning. If you don’t even wager an investigation, you don’t get satisfaction at all.
“Who has most reason to fear hell: he who is in ignorance whether there is a hell, and who is certain of damnation if there is; or he who certainly believes there is a hell, and hopes to be saved if there is?”
Right. Pascal is a prototypical existentialist. He advocates wagering finite existence on the possibility of eternal life. It seems to me that the best that could result in is an ethical agnosticism with whatever ritual formalism you think best thrown in for good measure. Without the grace of God, you’d just be going through the motions.
That supports what I just said. Going to church on the possibility of eternal life is going through the motions of Christianity without the spiritual reality of it. In itself it is agnosticism. And I know of people who profess this is what they’re doing. I suppose we could call them “Pascalians”. There are folks who send their children to church or religious school, so that they’ll get faith, even though they themselves don’t believe. This seems like a variety of the Pascalian way.
Excuse me, but where did Pascal say that if you go to church you will be saved? Just curious. Let’s stick to the wager.
I’m going to propose a rephrasing that may register better to ears tuned to, say, Camus & Nietzsche:
What is worth living and dying for, such that if you forget it (or never see it), you have forgotten/missed the meaning or point of life, and therefore life (¡RIGHT NOW!) —to you— is completely meaningless HELL/misery (a restless heart)?
Agreed. Any meaning they observe or cultivate in the universe is ungrounded or ungroundable (sandcastles for the tide, for all they can see) because they deny or “table” acknowledgment of the ground.
There are still people who practice rituals for quasi-Pascalian reasons. But, in contemporary secular society, fewer seem to see the value of ritual observance. Hence the growth of the “Nones” for whom there is a disconnect between spirituality and religious institutions. What do you say to them?
“there are 450 to 500 million positive atheists and agnostics worldwide (7% of the world’s population) with China alone accounting for 200 million of that demographic.”
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What does religious even mean, these days?
It can include being religious but not believing in/praying to a/any god or deity… even the Vatican has acknowledged this.
Many don’t go to church to appease a/any good, but to appease themselves.
I think that is a misinterpretation of the wager. He’s basically saying you are more likely to get the point if you wager that there is one rather than assuming there isn’t (and so definitely missing it)—despite all the obvious longing for one… You can totally see the obvious longing especially in those who deny the point exists. They either try to outperform the people who claim there is a point, or they act out in rebellious ways.