peace breaks out in london

[Impenitent]

forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/06/ … 70727.html

isn’t it nice that the left wing pacifists have convinced al qaeda to surrender?

-Imp

[Carleas]

Don’t you mean “Isn’t it nice that we’ve spent trillions of dollars successfully fighting global terror?”

[aspacia]

The U.K. needs to wake-up, browse the terrorist web sites for threats, and expel the violent clerics.

Carleas, these fanatics mean to destroy your freedoms and your life. You freedoms will be totally annihilated if Sharia Law is imposed, and this is what the fanatics want; total submission to their Allah. Read their words, and take them at their word.

[Carleas]

Should I be worried about the possibility of Sharia Law being imposed? Oddly enough, that 1% of the country rising up to impose Sharia Law on me doesn’t keep me awake at night.
On the other hand, I’m pretty upset about the amount of money we spend killing people overseas. And if I were scared of the imposition of Sharia Law, I’d be upset that the money we spend has actually made us less safe as a nation, and has encouraged more people towards radical islam.

[someoneisatthedoor]

Imp and Aspacia,

No evidence has been produced that this had anything to do with Al Qaeda or Militant Islam or Sharia Law or any of that. It is entirely your own prejudices and speculation (at this point) that these two defused car bombs (which bear all the hallmarks of the IRA rather than Al Qaeda) are part of the ‘War on Terror’.

I’d appreciate you not editorialising about the political and security situation in my country without the slightest evidence to back up your claims…

[Impenitent]

@someoneisatthedoor

Imp and Aspacia,

No evidence has been produced that this had anything to do with Al Qaeda or Militant Islam or Sharia Law or any of that. It is entirely your own prejudices and speculation (at this point) that these two defused car bombs (which bear all the hallmarks of the IRA rather than Al Qaeda) are part of the ‘War on Terror’.

I’d appreciate you not editorialising about the political and security situation in my country without the slightest evidence to back up your claims…

I was not speaking of the politics in your country…

I was speaking about the war on terror being nothing but a bumper sticker and how the left wing pacifists have prevented further terror attacks.

-Imp

[aspacia]

@Carleas

Should I be worried about the possibility of Sharia Law being imposed? Oddly enough, that 1% of the country rising up to impose Sharia Law on me doesn’t keep me awake at night.
On the other hand, I’m pretty upset about the amount of money we spend killing people overseas. And if I were scared of the imposition of Sharia Law, I’d be upset that the money we spend has actually made us less safe as a nation, and has encouraged more people towards radical islam.

Yes, you should be concerned because of Muslim demographics. That 1 % can easily reach a huge voting block for your grandchildren.

Hence, no successful terrorist attacks since 9/11.

Remember, most were not afraid of Hitler either.

[aspacia]

@someoneisatthedoor

Imp and Aspacia,

No evidence has been produced that this had anything to do with Al Qaeda or Militant Islam or Sharia Law or any of that. It is entirely your own prejudices and speculation (at this point) that these two defused car bombs (which bear all the hallmarks of the IRA rather than Al Qaeda) are part of the ‘War on Terror’.

I’d appreciate you not editorialising about the political and security situation in my country without the slightest evidence to back up your claims…

Lol, even if evidence surface that the perpetrators were Muslims, you would, as usual blame your government.

The IRA has basically been defanged, and you know it.

[someoneisatthedoor]

@aspacia

Lol, even if evidence surface that the perpetrators were Muslims, you would, as usual blame your government.

Where did I ‘blame my government’ previously?

The IRA has basically been defanged, and you know it.

I didn’t say it was the IRA, I said it bore the hallmarks of the IRA.

Regardless, I’m sure I know more about the history of terrorism in this country than you do.

mathaba.net/data/sis/shayler000216.htm
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/429393.stm
guardian.co.uk/Archive/Artic … 52,00.html
guardian.co.uk/shayler/artic … 32,00.html

[aspacia]

@someoneisatthedoor

@aspacia

Lol, even if evidence surface that the perpetrators were Muslims, you would, as usual blame your government.

Where did I ‘blame my government’ previously?

7/7. You forgot?

The IRA has basically been defanged, and you know it.

I didn’t say it was the IRA, I said it bore the hallmarks of the IRA.

Gasoline filled with nails? Nope. The IRA has a history of warning before its attacks, and not using 50 gallons of gasoline filled with nails.

Regardless, I’m sure I know more about the history of terrorism in this country than you do.

Remember, my mother is from a family of 8, and my cousin is coming for a visit shortly.

Regardless, there are many in the U.S. and U.K. who probably know more regarding the IRA than you do. Just being a U.K. citizen, does not make you expert in IRA terrorism.

Again, read the IRA’s history of attacks. They often warned of impending attacks, and where the attacks will happen.

Geez, UK Muslims claim they want to impose Sharia Law, and that they want to destroy your freedoms-- who do you blame ?? The IRA.

Enjoy the sand ostrich.

[thezeus18]

Enjoy the sand ostrich.

Enjoy Airstrip One.

[aspacia]

@thezeus18

Enjoy the sand ostrich.

Enjoy Airstrip One.

LOL, Orwellian- sure we do live in a somewhat dysfunctional society, but it is better to most existing societies.

The Saudi Kingdom better fits Orwell’s police state, or perhaps North Korea.

Hyperbole does not an argument make. (intended)

[someoneisatthedoor]

@aspacia

@aspacia

Lol, even if evidence surface that the perpetrators were Muslims, you would, as usual blame your government.

Where did I ‘blame my government’ previously?

7/7. You forgot?

When did I blame my government for 7/7? I simply said that the official version is blatantly a cover-up and a sham. I don’t know who did it.

The IRA has basically been defanged, and you know it.

I didn’t say it was the IRA, I said it bore the hallmarks of the IRA.

Gasoline filled with nails? Nope. The IRA has a history of warning before its attacks, and not using 50 gallons of gasoline filled with nails.

How do you know there wasn’t going to be a warning before these car bombs went off? They were discovered apparently by accident by an paramedic when an ambulance was called to the scene. Could this not have been a warning, of sorts?

As to the IRA using nail bombs:
news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid … 1161662003
And nail bombs in cars:
news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date … 515343.stm

Regardless, I’m sure I know more about the history of terrorism in this country than you do.

Remember, my mother is from a family of 8, and my cousin is coming for a visit shortly.

Yet you clearly knew nothing of the above.

Regardless, there are many in the U.S. and U.K. who probably know more regarding the IRA than you do. Just being a U.K. citizen, does not make you expert in IRA terrorism.

I didn’t say I knew more than anyone in the US or UK, I said I knew more than you. And this issue of nail bombs in cars (the gasoline is a variation on the idea) demonstrates this quite adequately.

Again, read the IRA’s history of attacks. They often warned of impending attacks, and where the attacks will happen.

See above. Don’t you dare tell me to read the history I’ve clearly read and you haven’t.

Geez, UK Muslims claim they want to impose Sharia Law, and that they want to destroy your freedoms-- who do you blame ?? The IRA.

As I said before, you have no evidence at all (except your own racist prejudice) to believe that these car bombs were planted by Muslims. Do I worry about fundamentalist beliefs? Of course. Do I worry more about the government itself that doesn’t just intend to destroy my freedoms but is actively doing so? Of course I do.

Enjoy the sand ostrich.

So, that’s three strawmen, one severe case of factual inaccuracy and one ad hominem. Care to try to improve on your score or will you decide to cut your losses and go home empty handed?

[elephantepelecanus]

Would you honestly see it past Western political scare tactics? We’ve
gone far too long without an attack on the homefront for the Ministries of Truth/Peace, eh?

I’ll keep it Orwell.

Fire needs fuel; the head honchos have delivered.

[aspacia]

@someoneisatthedoor

@aspacia

Lol, even if evidence surface that the perpetrators were Muslims, you would, as usual blame your government.

Where did I ‘blame my government’ previously?

7/7. You forgot?

When did I blame my government for 7/7? I simply said that the official version is blatantly a cover-up and a sham. I don’t know who did it.

You implied it was your government, as you imply it was my government behind 9/11.

The IRA has basically been defanged, and you know it.

I didn’t say it was the IRA, I said it bore the hallmarks of the IRA.

[.quote]

Again, the implication is clear. Most of the IRA’s attacks have not utilized nail bombs; a hallmark of Muslim fanatics.

Gasoline filled with nails? Nope. The IRA has a history of warning before its attacks, and not using 50 gallons of gasoline filled with nails.

How do you know there wasn’t going to be a warning before these car bombs went off? They were discovered apparently by accident by an paramedic when an ambulance was called to the scene. Could this not have been a warning, of sorts?

LOL, good stretch, Slim. No, I do not know, neither do you, but considering the recent Muslim outrage regarding Rushdie, this is not a stretch and you know it.

As to the IRA using nail bombs:
news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid … 1161662003
And nail bombs in cars:
news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date … 515343.stm

Good, I did not know this. Again, this is not the preferred IRA method of attack and you know it. Too many dead civilians.

Regardless, I’m sure I know more about the history of terrorism in this country than you do.

Remember, my mother is from a family of 8, and my cousin is coming for a visit shortly.

Yet you clearly knew nothing of the above.

You are correct, as my relatives related more information regarding the various other IRA attacks that did not use nail bombs. They were more outraged regarding the massacres that occurred between the Greens and Oranges.

Regardless, there are many in the U.S. and U.K. who probably know more regarding the IRA than you do. Just being a U.K. citizen, does not make you expert in IRA terrorism.

I didn’t say I knew more than anyone in the US or UK, I said I knew more than you. And this issue of nail bombs in cars (the gasoline is a variation on the idea) demonstrates this quite adequately.

You often imply or blatantly claim that you know more than other posters.

Again, read the IRA’s history of attacks. They often warned of impending attacks, and where the attacks will happen.

See above. Don’t you dare tell me to read the history I’ve clearly read and you haven’t.

I will do and dare as I wish, and you cannot stop me.

Geez, UK Muslims claim they want to impose Sharia Law, and that they want to destroy your freedoms-- who do you blame ?? The IRA.

As I said before, you have no evidence at all (except your own racist prejudice) to believe that these car bombs were planted by Muslims.

I will wait and see, however, considering the recent fatwas calling for terrorist attacks against the UK by Muslim clerics, this is not a stretch, and you know it.

Do I worry about fundamentalist beliefs? Of course.

Many UK Muslims are far more radicalized than most in the U.S. terrorist threats are illegal. You wait.

Do I worry more about the government itself that doesn’t just intend to destroy my freedoms but is actively doing so? Of course I do.

During times of war, this often occurs. This is just a different type of war. Who do you trust more with your freedoms? Those calling for Sharia Law or your government? The choice is yours. At the moment the UK is known as Londinstan, and Europe as Eurabia. Which do you prefer, the Middle-East style of government, or your socialist style of government? At the people have a choice.

Enjoy the sand ostrich.

So, that’s three strawmen, one severe case of factual inaccuracy and one ad hominem. Care to try to improve on your score or will you decide to cut your losses and go home empty handed?

ROLF–TRUE REGARDING OSTRICH, BUT NOT THE STRAWMAN.

Still the angry child - another ad hom.

[someoneisatthedoor]

@aspacia

@someoneisatthedoor

@aspacia

Lol, even if evidence surface that the perpetrators were Muslims, you would, as usual blame your government.

Where did I ‘blame my government’ previously?

7/7. You forgot?

When did I blame my government for 7/7? I simply said that the official version is blatantly a cover-up and a sham. I don’t know who did it.

You implied it was your government, as you imply it was my government behind 9/11.

So, you’ve gone from ‘you would, as usual, blame your government’ to ‘you implied it was your government’ because, as always, you have no evidence to back up your claim against me. But rather than just admit you were wrong you shift your position in the hope that I wouldn’t notice. Tough luck, I did notice, as will anyone else reading this thread.

The IRA has basically been defanged, and you know it.

I didn’t say it was the IRA, I said it bore the hallmarks of the IRA.

[.quote]

Again, the implication is clear.

No, it isn’t. Unlike you, I haven’t claimed that I know who is responsible for these attempted car bombings. You can fictionalise any ‘implication’ you like, it’s all your own prejudices and racism.

Most of the IRA’s attacks have not utilized nail bombs; a hallmark of Muslim fanatics.

Find a single attack by Islamic terrorists in a Western country that used nail bombs.

Gasoline filled with nails? Nope. The IRA has a history of warning before its attacks, and not using 50 gallons of gasoline filled with nails.

How do you know there wasn’t going to be a warning before these car bombs went off? They were discovered apparently by accident by an paramedic when an ambulance was called to the scene. Could this not have been a warning, of sorts?

LOL, good stretch, Slim.

That was a question, not a claim.

No, I do not know, neither do you, but considering the recent Muslim outrage regarding Rushdie, this is not a stretch and you know it.

It’s a massive stretch to go from ‘Muslims pissed off about literary figure being honoured’ to ‘these car bombs of unknown provenance MUST have been planted by Muslims’.

As to the IRA using nail bombs:
news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid … 1161662003
And nail bombs in cars:
news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date … 515343.stm

Good, I did not know this. Again, this is not the preferred IRA method of attack and you know it. Too many dead civilians.

Nonetheless, you claimed that the IRA didn’t use nail bombs when they did, so my claim to know more about this topic than you has been validated…

Regardless, I’m sure I know more about the history of terrorism in this country than you do.

Remember, my mother is from a family of 8, and my cousin is coming for a visit shortly.

Yet you clearly knew nothing of the above.

You are correct, as my relatives related more information regarding the various other IRA attacks that did not use nail bombs. They were more outraged regarding the massacres that occurred between the Greens and Oranges.

You mean events that weren’t terrorist attacks but rather were part of a domestic civil war in Ireland?

Regardless, there are many in the U.S. and U.K. who probably know more regarding the IRA than you do. Just being a U.K. citizen, does not make you expert in IRA terrorism.

I didn’t say I knew more than anyone in the US or UK, I said I knew more than you. And this issue of nail bombs in cars (the gasoline is a variation on the idea) demonstrates this quite adequately.

You often imply or blatantly claim that you know more than other posters.

I know, and I have openly claimed to know more about the history of terrorism in the UK than you know, which I have now shown to be the case. Why are you treading over old ground?

Again, read the IRA’s history of attacks. They often warned of impending attacks, and where the attacks will happen.

See above. Don’t you dare tell me to read the history I’ve clearly read and you haven’t.

I will do and dare as I wish, and you cannot stop me.

We’ll see about that…

Geez, UK Muslims claim they want to impose Sharia Law, and that they want to destroy your freedoms-- who do you blame ?? The IRA.

As I said before, you have no evidence at all (except your own racist prejudice) to believe that these car bombs were planted by Muslims.

I will wait and see, however, considering the recent fatwas calling for terrorist attacks against the UK by Muslim clerics, this is not a stretch, and you know it.

It is a stretch to go from motive to guilt without any evidence.

Do I worry about fundamentalist beliefs? Of course.

Many UK Muslims are far more radicalized than most in the U.S. terrorist threats are illegal. You wait.

Prove that UK muslims are ‘far more radicalised’ than those in the US. Otherwise you’re just making another assertion about a country you clearly know next to fuck-all about…

Do I worry more about the government itself that doesn’t just intend to destroy my freedoms but is actively doing so? Of course I do.

During times of war, this often occurs. This is just a different type of war.

According to the new Home Secretary (to go with the new PM), the threat can never be eliminated. If the threat can never be eliminated then the war can never be won. If the war can never be won then this taking away of my freedom is permanent. If my freedom is taken away permanently then I live in a dictatorship.

Who do you trust more with your freedoms? Those calling for Sharia Law or your government?

Neither. Just because you conceive of this like a ‘true American’, i.e. as though there are two clearly opposing sides in a fight and you must choose to ally yourself with one of them doesn’t mean I have to conceive of it like that.

The choice is yours. At the moment the UK is known as Londinstan, and Europe as Eurabia.

Only to paranoid racists.

Which do you prefer, the Middle-East style of government, or your socialist style of government? At the people have a choice.

‘At the people have a choice’ - you can’t even write literately…

Enjoy the sand ostrich.

So, that’s three strawmen, one severe case of factual inaccuracy and one ad hominem. Care to try to improve on your score or will you decide to cut your losses and go home empty handed?

ROLF–TRUE REGARDING OSTRICH, BUT NOT THE STRAWMAN.

You accused me of blaming my government, yet have produced no proof. You accused me of blaming the IRA (even though this contradicted you accusation that I would blame my government), yet have produced no proof. You said that the IRA doesn’t use nail bombs, yet I produced proof that it has in the past.

Three strawmen.

Still the angry child - another ad hom.

You are the one having to resort to insults and accusations and who is refusing to back up your claims. Who is it that looks angry?

[aspacia]

@someoneisatthedoor

@aspacia

@someoneisatthedoor

@aspacia

Lol, even if evidence surface that the perpetrators were Muslims, you would, as usual blame your government.

Where did I ‘blame my government’ previously?

7/7. You forgot?

When did I blame my government for 7/7? I simply said that the official version is blatantly a cover-up and a sham. I don’t know who did it.

You implied it was your government, as you imply it was my government behind 9/11.

So, you’ve gone from ‘you would, as usual, blame your government’ to ‘you implied it was your government’ because, as always, you have no evidence to back up your claim against me. But rather than just admit you were wrong you shift your position in the hope that I wouldn’t notice. Tough luck, I did notice, as will anyone else reading this thread.

[.quote]

Of course I knew you would notice, and your implications regarding your government and mine are obvious. You continually blame the governments for these attacks, they side step or backtrack stating you really do not know who did it. You never were able to prove your case in either 7/7 nor 9/11 and you know it.

The IRA has basically been defanged, and you know it.

I didn’t say it was the IRA, I said it bore the hallmarks of the IRA.

[.quote]

Again, the implication is clear.

No, it isn’t. Unlike you, I haven’t claimed that I know who is responsible for these attempted car bombings. You can fictionalise any ‘implication’ you like, it’s all your own prejudices and racism.

How about religiouscism - not racism. Generally, I fear most faiths, especially those that still commit acts of violence in the name of their faith.

Most of the IRA’s attacks have not utilized nail bombs; a hallmark of Muslim fanatics.

Find a single attack by Islamic terrorists in a Western country that used nail bombs.

How about the recent attack, the intent is there and you know it.

Gasoline filled with nails? Nope. The IRA has a history of warning before its attacks, and not using 50 gallons of gasoline filled with nails.

How do you know there wasn’t going to be a warning before these car bombs went off? They were discovered apparently by accident by an paramedic when an ambulance was called to the scene. Could this not have been a warning, of sorts?

LOL, good stretch, Slim.

That was a question, not a claim.

ROFL- Geez, how well you dance.

No, I do not know, neither do you, but considering the recent Muslim outrage regarding Rushdie, this is not a stretch and you know it.

It’s a massive stretch to go from ‘Muslims pissed off about literary figure being honoured’ to ‘these car bombs of unknown provenance MUST have been planted by Muslims’.

The threats were made by UK Muslims, and other Muslims. The fatwas were issued, then the attempt made. Go figure why any I would logically think that a Muslim fanatic is probably the perpetrator. Try reading an Islamic board for insight.

As to the IRA using nail bombs:
news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid … 1161662003
And nail bombs in cars:
news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/date … 515343.stm

Good, I did not know this. Again, this is not the preferred IRA method of attack and you know it. Too many dead civilians.

Nonetheless, you claimed that the IRA didn’t use nail bombs when they did, so my claim to know more about this topic than you has been validated…

The nail bombs are a hallmark of Muslims intent on massacring as many people as possible to make their point. They do not care if they murder innocent civilians and exhibit zero remorse.

Regardless, I’m sure I know more about the history of terrorism in this country than you do.

Remember, my mother is from a family of 8, and my cousin is coming for a visit shortly.

Yet you clearly knew nothing of the above.

Nope, I did not know, and admit it. So, I am here to learn, not to strut around like an arrogant, snobbish peacock.

You are correct, as my relatives related more information regarding the various other IRA attacks that did not use nail bombs. They were more outraged regarding the massacres that occurred between the Greens and Oranges.

You mean events that weren’t terrorist attacks but rather were part of a domestic civil war in Ireland?

Not at all as I view the IRA as a defanged terrorist group. Any group that opposes an elected government, attacks civilians without wearing a uniform, and generally envokes terror, I view as terrorist. Remember that years ago, Northern Ireland held an open vote, and voted to keep British rule.

Regardless, there are many in the U.S. and U.K. who probably know more regarding the IRA than you do. Just being a U.K. citizen, does not make you expert in IRA terrorism.

I didn’t say I knew more than anyone in the US or UK, I said I knew more than you. And this issue of nail bombs in cars (the gasoline is a variation on the idea) demonstrates this quite adequately.

You often imply or blatantly claim that you know more than other posters.

I know, and I have openly claimed to know more about the history of terrorism in the UK than you know, which I have now shown to be the case. Why are you treading over old ground?

Again, read the IRA’s history of attacks. They often warned of impending attacks, and where the attacks will happen.

See above. Don’t you dare tell me to read the history I’ve clearly read and you haven’t.

I will do and dare as I wish, and you cannot stop me.

We’ll see about that…

What is with your need to control? Very sad.

Geez, UK Muslims claim they want to impose Sharia Law, and that they want to destroy your freedoms-- who do you blame ?? The IRA.

As I said before, you have no evidence at all (except your own racist prejudice) to believe that these car bombs were planted by Muslims.

I will wait and see, however, considering the recent fatwas calling for terrorist attacks against the UK by Muslim clerics, this is not a stretch, and you know it.

It is a stretch to go from motive to guilt without any evidence. I make a threat, then approach the person I threaten with a loaded gun, hum, sounds like the intent is there.

Do I worry about fundamentalist beliefs? Of course.

Many UK Muslims are far more radicalized than most in the U.S. terrorist threats are illegal. You wait.

Prove that UK muslims are ‘far more radicalised’ than those in the US. Otherwise you’re just making another assertion about a country you clearly know next to fuck-all about…

Okay: forbes.com/business/2006/10/ … xford.html

Do I worry more about the government itself that doesn’t just intend to destroy my freedoms but is actively doing so? Of course I do.

During times of war, this often occurs. This is just a different type of war.

According to the new Home Secretary (to go with the new PM), the threat can never be eliminated. If the threat can never be eliminated then the war can never be won. If the war can never be won then this taking away of my freedom is permanent. If my freedom is taken away permanently then I live in a dictatorship.

LOL, generally, terrorism cannot ever be eliminated, however certain extremist groups can be cowed.

Who do you trust more with your freedoms? Those calling for Sharia Law or your government?

Neither. Just because you conceive of this like a ‘true American’, i.e. as though there are two clearly opposing sides in a fight and you must choose to ally yourself with one of them doesn’t mean I have to conceive of it like that.

Again, during war and the West has been attacked, freedoms are curtailed, then the restrictions are lifted. I do not trust a group that claims not to lie, but their faith condones lying.

The choice is yours. At the moment the UK is known as Londinstan, and Europe as Eurabia.

Only to paranoid racists.

Pragmatic people who believe the fanatics claim that they want to destroy us.

Which do you prefer, the Middle-East style of government, or your socialist style of government? At the people have a choice.

‘At the people have a choice’ - you can’t even write literately…

I meant at the moment. LOL, a comma usually goes before the word “but,” if you want to pick nits.

Enjoy the sand ostrich.

So, that’s three strawmen, one severe case of factual inaccuracy and one ad hominem. Care to try to improve on your score or will you decide to cut your losses and go home empty handed?

[wuote]ROFL–TRUE REGARDING OSTRICH, BUT NOT THE STRAWMAN.

You accused me of blaming my government, yet have produced no proof. You accused me of blaming the IRA (even though this contradicted you accusation that I would blame my government), yet have produced no proof. You said that the IRA doesn’t use nail bombs, yet I produced proof that it has in the past.

Three strawmen.

You have often done you best to prove that your government and mine were behind 7/7 and 9/11, then danced saying your really don’t know. Your point is obvious regardless of your disclaimer. At the moment you sound similar to the advertisement disclaimers regardless of their claims.

Still the angry child - another ad hom.

You are the one having to resort to insults and accusations and who is refusing to back up your claims. Who is it that looks angry?

You.

Oh, BTW: Royce and I have company coming for BBQ steaks and chicken today, and tomorrow we are going to Oak Glen for a picnic. Hence, I will not be back for a while.

[Carleas]

I realize politics are hot issues. I realize that terrorism especially plays on fears, and can excite emotions. However, it is still possible to discuss issues without being condescending or insulting.

This thread is locked.