Philosophical Introversion

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

Today I am going to bring up and discuss an important topic that is on my mind: “Philosophical Introversion”

I want all of the active posters of ILP to speak on this or respond to it…

Philosophical Inversion

A person who is “inverted” is considered to be many different things: a person who receives energy from loneliness (rather than from within groups of people), disconnected in a way from other people/society, a “brilliant” thinker, one who lives an “inward” life, one who ponders and reflects on thoughts, etc. Don’t these ideas fit the description of philosophers in general? I am (easily) betting that a vast majority of people called “philosophers” throughout history are/were in fact “introverts”. Although this shouldn’t be a surprise, I would like to discuss and explain it anyway.

What is it about this personality trait that makes people into “philosophers”? While it’s true that many introverts do not become philosophers, instead they become “artists” and “geniuses” through different avenues. Regardless, philosophers are mostly or almost entirely “introverts”. Why?

My main questions to ILP right now are these:

  1. Does being around groups of people, or just “incompetent” strangers, take or use up energy from you?

  2. Would you consider yourself to have an “introverted” personality? If yes, then what does it mean to you?

  3. What do you think the connection is between introversion and philosophy both personally and in general?

I feel that I need to talk about my own introversion first, before I go on to talk about how it relates to philosophy from my perspective…

I live a very introverted life. I have a few best friends, what I would consider lifelong friends, but outside of that, I have nothing and I seem to prefer it. I lived with my ex-girlfriend (who I still love and adore) for about 5 years, but I have always lived “alone” in a certain way that I could never really describe. I live alone now, in my room, which I enjoy in some kind of twisted way. I rarely leave, except when needed, much like a prison. I desire what other people have to offer, but in a sense, I don’t care about the world outside me. It is not interesting, it is predictable, it is fake, and much of it makes me sick. However, I would say that much of the “outside” world is also beautiful; it is desirable to me in its peaceful ignorance. I don’t know how I feel about rejoining this world.

I stand on the outside of a house, looking in through the window. There is a family inside where it is warm and they are all eating together. However, I am standing on the outside-looking-in, alone in the bitter cold. I want to be on the inside, but what I realize is that I have a better perspective from where I am. I can choose to go inside and join them anytime I would like, but I do not. Is it merely my preference? I don’t know. Though, one thing is for sure. Many people in this world, in life, do not step outside their homes to brave the bitter cold. Many people will never know the dangers of leaving the safety of their cozy world–should they? Am I blessed or cursed in this matter? Why is it important in the end? Was it just my set of circumstances that led me to my lifestyle/personality?

What I realize is that my perspective of the world offers me insights that most people do not have. I have the advantage of viewing life from the outside! Many people go about their lives like ants in an ant colony, yet they want to know “why?” They desperately ask, “why!?!?” In fact, they are crying it out loud. They call and pray to the gods, but the gods do not hear their answers. Why do the gods not answer? What reasons are there for these things?

My perspective blesses me with certain answers that few others can provide, except other philosophers, people who shall one day become my respected enemies while they (you) do not realize yet…

edited and added I feel like I’m stuck inside my brain. Throughout my whole life, my brain has been like a high-speed computer processor left on overdrive that I can’t shut off. From time to time, it stresses me out a great deal. It is so hard to manage my thoughts, because they keep pouring in relentlessly. I don’t know what to do or handle to handle them. Sometimes I feel that drinking eases these matters, but my family has a history of alcoholics. Am I fated to join them? I feel like it might be enjoyable for me to numb my pain and “succeed” out in the “real” world, but I already know that in the end it would be for nothing. I would find myself again, in the end, alone. Somebody shut my fucking computer off (preferably without killing me)! :evilfun: Give me some answers–or better yet, give me some questions that I haven’t solved already…

What are your thoughts and opinions about your relation to these matters as well as my own?

P.S. If you really wish to piss me off personally, then now is your opportunity. Any non-serious answer that appears I am going to take as a great personal disrespect and I would willingly enjoy ignoring future posts made by such offenders. In fact, if you don’t have anything constructive to say on these matters, then you should just say nothing at all. :wink:

:smiley:

2

Right, well I consider myself an introverted person. I, as you describe, feel drained after certain types of interactions. I am somebody who is very comfortable in his own company, and positively enjoys spending time doing his own thing.

However, I vacillate between feeling something like what you describe, without anything like the same personal circumstances, and thinking that, really, people are great. I suppose I’m in the rather different situation of being at university so I’m surrounded with people constantly, and I consider those people my friends so this is a good thing. I get on well with my family, so I’ve never really experienced living alone. I don’t know how I’d find it. I very much feel that, for me, I need contact with people. What I have is that I like to control this contact, I want relationships in general to be on my terms. I don’t like people forcing themselves on me. However, whenever I’ve gone for over a week or so without any real contact with anyone I’ve started to get a bit down. So, I like to have people around when I want them.

And another thing is that interaction with people I feel confident around (i.e. friends) doesn’t drain me at all, I positively enjoy it. I’m hardly a party animal, but I enjoy drunken nights out, more for the conversation and feeling of closeness than anything else. I’m not easy to get close to, but I value close friendships. I’ve not quite figured a lot of this stuff out to be honest. People are all different, what you say only applies to you, what I say only applies to me.

I experience some of the thoughts you describe, which can be roughly described as disdain for people in general. But I’ve always found out, and actually this has happened a lot this year, is that almost any person you can think of has a lot more depth than you’d ever imagine. Some people don’t go around sharing ‘philosophical’ or ‘intellectual’ ideas but have them anyway, others just have other interests. I often find that the more effort you put into talking to someone, the more you get out of it.

As for the connection with philosophy, I think a certain type of introvert probably is the ‘philosophical type’. But, again, philosophers are people too and I know people who are very good at philosophy, or have interests in that kind of area, who I wouldn’t describe as introverts at all. Lets not forget that ilp represents a particular ‘type’, lets say, of philosophy. I think the philosophical interests of a lot of people on here match well with introversion.

There’s nothing wrong with trying to justify your situation in life philosophically. I don’t know you, but you do sound genuine when you say you aren’t interested in people, or that kind of thing. I’ve sometimes felt the same way, or put on that kind of persona for effect, but I think I know that I’m not that type of person. Its not that I care what people think of me, generally I don’t, but I’ve decided that I like people, just not too many of them too often. But the point I’m trying to make is that there is a world of difference between the person who is miserable, really wants to be loved, but puts on the persona of someone who doesn’t care because there isn’t anything else to do and the person who really is properly a ‘lone wolf’. If you are the latter type, which I hope you are, then a life spent pursuing intellectual goals is a good choice.

I think there is, in general, something isolating about intelligence. I’m sure all of us on here have experienced a conversation we just thought was moronic, and thought ourselves to be better than the participants. I generally try to distinguish between people who are actually uninteresting, no depth, and people who, while not intellectual, have depth, character. I find this worthwhile.

Just some very incoherent and rambling thoughts. I hope I haven’t made an enemy for life.

3

I appreciate this post, realunoriginal.

I too fit into the (very) “introverted”, which in the simplest terms is being mindful of abstract stimuli - reacting “internally” (not making a noticeable impact on the shared physical reality).

I do find people very tiring and draining, as I have difficulty going with the flow when I see pee exhibit behaviors and belief systems that I think are a general detriment to themself, others, and the earth at large. Do I call them out on this, knowing they probably won’t be convinced otherwise, that all it would do is give them more irritation to misplace? Sometimes you have to let your mind enter a certain apathy when dealing with those that haven’t yet deconstructed cultural norms. Sometimes it is like forcing to play along with the nonsense rules of some game a group of retards think is real/relevent.

I really enjoy my time alone, but sometimes I do feel like I am “wasting my life”, but I think these depressing thoughts are just remnants of cultural beliefs that remain engrained in me; I don’t actually think I am living any less a life that someone who goes out every night to experience a varied assortment of physical s(t)imulations. But usually, when I finally do “have fun” by “letting go”, I experience melancholy mood when I come to the realization that I put my cognitive abilities on hold for the sake of feeling at ease admist a herd of children, simply to assure myself that I can go along if I really wanted to.

I suppose in the end it is all a problem with my ego… when ignorant and impudent people impose their idiocy on me, and (whether directly or passively) ask me to agree with their ridiculous insights and the blatant urighteousness of their actions, I feel that I don’t deserve it, because I am better than them. But how do you argue with a sheep, or an impaired robot? If I didn’t think about my thinking processes as a “self” that deserves some kind of respect from other “selves”, than I could just play along and not really care either way, but I do (still) take myself seriously, and other selves, too seriously. But I still wonder, if this is something I should do? Do I push for respect towards others because doing so may make it more difficult for those that are taking themselves too seriously? It’s questions like this that keep me from acting freely in social situations, where ethical concerns begin popping up when it comes to dealing with the meaning of so many social cues.

What is the connection between introversion and philosophy? Well, Sartre said “Hell is other people” (but I’m not exactly sure what the context was when he said this…), I think philosophy is the attempt to find information that will merge your social and… dionysian, let’s say, self into one unified be(ing), free of cognitive conflict.

Hope this is the kind of response you were searching for when you made this thread.

-Matt

4

Excellent responses Web Spun and Irving,

Exactly what I was looking for–thanks! =D>

:sunglasses:

5

until you venture out … you don’t have to rejoin this world persay , you can be apart of the world but still be seperate from the world where you see fit

6

I am an introvert and when surrounded by extroverts I start to suffer from anxiety and severe panic attacks, so I try not to be exposed to only extroverts at any one given time. They start to annoy me if I am in their company for too long, and do not seem to sense when they are makinbg other’s uncomfortable: a thing which introverts can do…

Over the years I have learned how to handle extroverts, so as to only sustain minimal energy drainage from their high energy requirements from others to feed their ‘habit’.

From experience: introverts are seen as weak pliable and push-overs, but it does come as a shock to others when they realise that this is not so, and that we have more influence and power than they do for all their loud attention-seeking ways…

I really don’t know if extroverts make for good philosophers - I haven’t gotten that close to them to find out about their thoughts and thinking on philosophical matters: as that would be a stupid move on an introverts part as extroverts would just see it as another way of trying to drain energy from the inquisitive and kind souls that introverts tend to be…

7

I prefer the company of a select few and I do enjoy good company but I’m not too keen when it comes to group interaction, I tend to shirk away. I prefer the company of my cat.

Yes. It seems to have it’s good points and bad, I see my art as an output to my introversion but my introversion also seems to cripple my efforts or that could just be me being lazy…a bad point would be shyness or just being socially inept in general but this is becoming less of a concern as I gain confidence in myself or as I come to know myself.

I don’t consider myself a philosopher although my interest is growing but I think the connection comes down to the introvert wanting to dissect their thoughts then the philosopher wants to grasp these thoughts, to understand them and to place them into the cosmic scheme of life.

8

1) Does being around groups of people, or just “incompetent” strangers, take or use up energy from you?

Yes, to an extent, but less so than being around myself. Being around myself is exhausting.

2) Would you consider yourself to have an “introverted” personality? If yes, then what does it mean to you?

Yes and no. Yes: because I enjoy spending time alone, just ‘thinking’, or doing something solitary. I like the calm. No: because I thoroughly enjoy being around other people and I am happiest when in the company of others.

3) What do you think the connection is between introversion and philosophy both personally and in general?

I think some level of introversion is pretty much a prerequisite for deep philosophical insight. By that I mean that philosophy is largely a solitary pursuit (I don’t really ponder existentialism much when playing football or downing beers). That said, I don’t consider myself an introvert proper. I want and need company. Does that interfere with my philosophical pursuits? Maybe, but that’s assuming that philosophical pursuits are even worthwhile in the first place.

I’ve found that philosophical introversion in whatever form - thinking about Kant in the shower (no, not in that way… okay maybe), writing a philosophy essay at 3am - is nice in that it makes me feel ‘smart’ (even though I have the philosophical grasp of an 8-year old - not that that’s necessarily a bad thing), but none of it makes me feel ‘happy’.
Perhaps happiness is not something to be valued, but regardless, in my case philosophy feels largely like a doomed circular pursuit that leads nowhere and is mainly fueled by some sort of egotistical narcissism… either that or some twisted attempt at intellectual immortality.

So I feel that to truly devote oneself to philosophy one’s social life must suffer. The (little) time I’ve spent philosophizing, however, has made me gain a materialistic/hedonistic/nihilistic view of my own existence. As a consequence I value extroversion (‘getting out my head’, being active and giving in to my so-called lesser instincts) more than intellectual masturbation. I have come to view animalism and thoughtlessness as a sort of enviable state - a ‘pure’ state, if you will, that is far nobler (talk about contradictions) than what I view as an intellectual version of chasing my own tail.

9

I’m extremely extroverted. If I’m left to my own devices thoughts just rumble around in my head until they get into a jumble and explode. Very, very draining. Being with people, especially large groups of people, really recharges my batteries.

Alone is manageable, but draining.

With two is OK, but I wouldn’t say it really recharges me.

Groups of three to five are about perfect, especially when they are paying attention to me because I’m a self-absorbed ego-maniac.

But what I really love are groups so large where identity is ablated. The Dionysian experience where you are a part of a throng united in a single purpose.

10

I am not an introvert, just a hermit. Too many bodies creates too much noise and too many smells now. It is the noise level and the smells that get to me.

I actually enjoy listening and talking with groups. I prefer people I know, but, strangers will do just as well. It is hard to learn when there is no one around. I can only take so much socializing because, my senses get overwhelmed. I recently rediscovered people in airports are a good cross section of humanity that one can listen to, speak with and observe. If you get the chance, go sit in an airport and speak with strangers that are waiting, they tend to be bored out of their minds and start opening up to others. You may want to let the security guards know your intentions. It might make an interesting thesis or report for you folks that are in school. Find out what permission you might need to get past the security check points, if you prearrange it, they may let you in if they can verify that it is a school project.

11

I don’t know. Probably not.
I don’t have lots of expectation, in general.
And I don’t have much expectation for human beings, especially.
So, seeing incompetent person doesn’t affect me much.
And I’m incompetent in many things, as well.

I don’t consider much about myself.
When I sense inside core, there is nothing.
No thought, concept, memories, sound, feeling, whatever.
I don’t think there is time nor space, for the matter.

As for the “personality”, it seems I may have both side.
I can stay alone and I don’t have problem with that.
I can stay with people and we can have fun.
I’m like this since I was small.
I could play alone, and I could play with others.

I don’t know.
It seems that many people have different ideas of philosophy, as well.

My different types of thinking processes have showed many things.
But mostly, what they did was to loosen up the notion/illusion of absoluteness that was attached to nearly every bit of ideas, terms, concepts, thinking methods.
I’m more and more certain that I know less and less, and things are uncertain.
So, I don’t know if this can be considered advantage in the life. :smiley:

Also, by thinking, it became more and more clear that there is no hope, and we will continue to suffer no matter what.
But I’m at least absolutely certain about the absolute uncertainty of the world and absolute lack of any attribute in “nothing(ness)”
And my logical mind seems to be pretty satisfied to have that absolute certainty.

There was a side effect of loosing interest, as well.
I lost interest in travel, diving, ski, math, and many many other things.

I guess loosing interests has something to do with loosing hopes.
Most probably, “interests” are nothing other than a kind of “hope”.
A hope to find something … valuable, meaningful, important, and moreover (at our subconscious level) something Absolute.

So, when I get the absolute certainty that there is no absoluteness in any positive form, hopes are gone and so as the interests, one by one, as the subconscious part of hopes and interests are exposed, experienced, and then resolved in the core void.

Going back to the question of “social/family life” type of interests vs philosophy, if you think about that, and if you are saying your lonely thinking has brought something to compensate, I guess you are thirsty of lovely feeling and warm comfort.
So, I would go get another girl friend, if I were you.

I still find the interest in observing what attracts me.
Attraction is not so different from the interests and hopes, it seems.
When we are attracted by opposite sex, we are possibly seeing some illusion of the absoluteness in the curves and smile.
Or we are hoping to become one with the girl/guy who’s presence suggests/evokes some sort of absoluteness in your mind. :slight_smile:

12

Realunoriginal: I read a book about Chinese hermits and was interested in an account in it of the author of the book reaching the hut of a hermit. The hermit quickly retreated into his hut for a while and then returned with a cup of hot tea for his guest. It was embarrassing for me to consider how negligent I am when guests come to my house, or how negligent I am of others in general. In other words, I don’t think it’s necessary for an introvert to force him or herself to be an extrovert, in order to overcome feelings of aloneness and alienation.

If I get some time I’ll respond here more in the way you were looking for.

13

It depends on the circumstances. I think it’s mostly about expectations - hopes and fears. I’m pretty introverted, so mostly the sense is that other people take energy from me. But in reality I ought to know it’s not the people themselves, but the burdens I think they represent. The problem is what I project onto other people. Too much interest in being obedient will of course turn other people into burdens pretty quickly. I had a loud, overbearing parent so I’ve been drawn towards obedience, as well as peace and quiet in general. That’s aside from the loud music etc. in the service of peace, if you know what I mean. I think my own psychology of introversion is pretty straightforward.

Yes. It means I most enjoy spending time either with a close friend (i.e. my wife) or by myself.

Introverted philosophers are often just sophisticated b.s. detectors. I think my first philosophical thoughts were triggered by what I saw as various forms of absurdity in the church I grew up in. The one that stands out in my mind most clearly is the idea that “primitive people” who have never heard of Christ might get to go to heaven if they tried to be good (it’s up to God), but if a missionary came and told them about Jesus then they have to “believe in Christ and accept him into their heart” or else be damned to hell. I knew right away that a person would never believe in something just because they were told to, and that therefore any Christian missionary with half a brain must think they’re actually damning all those people to hell. I certainly saw other people as stupid and myself as brilliant. I was angry and spent a lot of time alone thinking and thinking. It’s a certain personality type, and probably shared by many people here. It’s a recipe for suffering I think, if it’s not at least mediated by other mental applications.

You probably know I’m a Buddhist, so you at least vaguely and generally know what I think helps. Of course meditation is pre-Buddhist, so it’s benefits aren’t limited to people with particular philosophies.

14

Great material folks–well done. =D>

15

Some one once said something like- An unanalyzed life is not worth living.

Meditation is introversion. In meditation one sees thoughts come and go. Emotions come and go. But go deeper, to see, that all we are is thought.
Extroverts for the most part chase thoughts, moods and emotions and are enslaved or deluded by them. Their idle chit-chat drains me.

shy, fear, desire, aversion, shy, anger, confusion, doubt, frustration, envy, etc., are thoughts that we often unawarefully grasp and make part of our persona.

16

Wow, you are the romantic…as well as the arrogant…and I used to be the same way.

In the top portion of your entry, you write that you’re looking for answers, but your voice in everything after it expounds that you’ve already made up your mind.

Some of your definitions are contradicting and some I don‘t agree with at all. I’ll address my thoughts on your words in order from top to bottom and then finish up with my own.

Initially, I was not aware that society labeled the “introvert” as being synonymous with the “brilliant thinker.” Perhaps this is more telling of your own internal associations, and if you don’t think there are extroverted philosophers and artists out there, you’re in for a wake-up call. There are, however, differences in the principles valued between introverts and extroverts. If you are interested in the study of introversion and extroversion (because paying attention to only one or the other won’t give you the whole story) I would recommend Jung.

Secondly, I don’t understand your words of, “Many people in this world, in life, do not step outside their homes to brave the bitter cold. Many people will never know the dangers of leaving the safety of their cozy world,” when a paragraph earlier you were describing yourself as one who lives in his room as though it were a prison.

As for viewing life from the outside, I think I’d rather be in it. And I don’t understand why you would criticize someone for venturing to ask “why?” The question in and of itself is beautiful. It is only the answers people choose to accept that determines its projection of beauty or ugliness.

Now for me:

1.) I’m going to disregard the “incompetent strangers” remark because I don’t understand how you can be convinced of their total incompetence without knowing them. As for being around groups of people, it depends. A group of strangers doesn’t bother me one way or the other. They don’t give or take energy; it’s a neutral reaction. Being around a group of friends, however, often makes me feel drained by the time I go home. Everyone seems less real, pandering to group dynamics and playing for attention. This leaves me not really knowing what to do. The person I know one-on-one and the person I know in the group are different, their personas distorted. I DO NOT present my experiences as being true for everyone. Every once in a while, I am lucky enough to meet people who are the same while in and outside the group. Most of my observations, however, have reflected the former situation.

2.) I am an introvert. I consider it to directly motivate my tendency toward abstraction, both as an artist in my own work and as a viewer of others’ work.

3.) Again, I reiterate that there are both extroverted and introverted philosophers. You will, however, find that the principles they draw from are very different. Introverts tend toward subjectivity as a dominant pattern in their thinking while extroverts tend toward objectivity as a dominant pattern in theirs. It’s not that one is necessarily better than the other (assuming that both personalities are healthy and balanced), it’s just that much of the time we are most attracted to the ideas and works of those with a similar personality type.

17

I guess i’m alittle introverted… but i’m also quite social…

When i was a kid i would observe what i called “the popularity web”… through elementary and junior high i found myself asking the question of how these people (my fellow students) were able to live their lives without thinking about it.

Being an extremely analytical child i often analysed others, but also myself. from this i contrasted the sheer differences in attitudes, intelligence and beliefs…

where i thought about the validity of god in grade 2, others would think about it in grade 6 or not at all…

What always cnfused me was" how do the most popular kids know how to act without thinking about it?"…

The answer to that question as i know it cannot be put into words…

18

Some people just dont philosiphize they live in ignorant bliss.

“Wide apart and leading to different points are these two, ingorance , and what is known as wisdom. I believe Nakiketas to be one who desires knowledge, for even many pleasures did not tear thee away” – The Upanishads: Dialogue With Death

19

You’re putting too much value in the concept of “understanding,” which is why you’re so drawn to philosophy. You see that there is an ultimate futility in personal relationships, wealth, etc. and so you steer clear of those things. But you have to realize that understanding things, including philosophical things, is equally futile in the end. Once you see that, you won’t be obsessed with you’re own thoughts on the matter.

Relationships bring love, but human beings are incapable of perfect love.
Wealth brings power, but human beings are incapable of infinite power.
Understanding brings wisdom, but human beings are incapable of absolute truth.

However, just because something is ultimately futile, doesn’t mean it has zero value. Love, power, and wisdom are virtues, and pursuing them will give your life meaning, but you have to keep them in balance. That is a piece of practical wisdom.

The problem is that you can’t do that so long as you believe one of the three is the “Ultimate End” and the others are wasteful. Socrates says “the only thing I know is that I know nothing.” He might as well have said “the height of wisdom is to understand the futility of wisdom.”

If you want to break out of your introverted shell, start putting value in the idea of love. Love means seeing similarity and value in the pursuits of others. Sure, maybe they’re not into philosophy as much as you are, but maybe they’re into something else that you’ll find interesting. When that happens, you’ll be drawn to them, in the same way that you’re drawn to philosophy now. You’ll enjoy their company and they’ll enjoy yours. But you’ll have to make a real, conscious effort at first, because you’re not used to looking at them that way.

I’m not trying to be patronizing here, I’m just speaking from experience. I was once very much like you. Many people were, and get through it. The tricky thing in all this was it was exactly my lust for philosophy that led to its eventual downfall. I didn’t just change my mind about the value of understanding, I came to understand that understanding had limited value. So my suggestion to you is, pursue philosophy with all the vigor you do now, but don’t do so trying to become wiser, rather, find the flaws in the idea of wisdom and knowledge. They’re there, trust me. That will lead you out of the cage you’re in, and will do so without betraying your devotion to truth.

20

The personality archetype you describe is the hermit. The following two passages in Thus Spoke Zarathustra refer specifically to the topic you’ve touched upon: Of the Flies of the Market-Place (part one) and Of Passing By (in part three). I would have posted links to both (to be found on The Nietzsche Channel,) but it’s temporarily down.

I bid you read Nietzsche! You will find that his work is your word. :wink: