Philosophical Thought Undermines Emotion

emotions respond to forms; the forms of an imminent danger, an crying infant, a brilliant work of art, an attractive individual or the presence of our mates/lovers are some simple examples where exposure to a phenomenon or sensory/stimuli form generates an emotional reaction. emotional reactions are ancient hardwired bio-chemical systems in the human brain, and are reactions which facilitate our attachment or avoidance to certain stimuli. the subtle range of human emotion likely evolved over time along with the deepening and broadening of social systems and the increasingly complex social and interpersonal cues/rules we needed to operate by.

one thing that emotions do not respond to is code; data, numbers, derivatives. emotions exist in that they are a molecular chemical-biological cascade reaction that occurs when certain things are perceived by the brain’s perceptual apparatuses. sensations are converted from informational data into forms-based constructs or artifacts via perception, which is an interpretive process. emotions exist within and at the conclusion of this interpretive process. emotions respond to the identified constructs as forms, such as i mentioned above. think about the emotional reactions youve had recently, and you will see that they were caused because of exposure to a formal sensation, to a grouping of data or stimuli comprising a certain type (this excludes drug-based emotional responses).

philosophical thought involves a fundamentally deconstructionist approach to cognition and perception. it is the taking-apart, the differentiating into groups and subgroups, the objective or quantifying analysis of concepts and ideas and beliefs and constructs within our minds. philosophical thought (broadly defined) involves this deconstruction in that it seeks to look beyond the superficial, beyond the mere form or appearance of phenomena and into their essence or structure or causes. philosophical thought is not satisfied with simple or common/apparent explanations, and in seeking to ground or justify or explain these things it has to take them apart, analyse them from various perspectives and destructure them into their component parts, via linguistic analysis, critical theory, logic testing, introspective recategorization and relational extension/extrapolation, etc.

such philosophical thought, in seeking deeper understandings via finding the essences or quantifiable elements of mental concepts/constructs, creates new concepts and analyses which do not trigger emotional reactions because they are not forms in the traditional sense. normally emotions are triggered automatically and somewhat instinctively/without conscious intent upon exposure to certain PREscripted and PREdetermined groupings of sensory stimuli; yet it is precisely such prescripted and predetermined sensory and conceptual forms which are absent from philosophical analyses. the knowledge and concepts/ideas/beliefs generated from philosophical thought (once again, broadly defined) are fundamentally quantitative, numerical, logical or data-structural/extra-relational models. as if seeing a painting only as its pixels, or as primarily only a set of different individual paint spots rather than the whole, philosophical thought undermines the conditons which would trigger the emotional reaction. even if we still “see the painting itself” it is now alongside or through the alternative lens of ‘deeper’ philosophical analysis. we are exposed to the painting, but feel nothing, as we see only the individual threads or the pixels or paint smears (or the historical/psychological/social/representational/theoretical analyses/etc behind the genre or the painter or the image painted or the intent of the painter or of whatever deeper dimension of analyses we wish to go to), and not the unified and apparent form itself.

in this manner philosophical thought, essentially critical or deconstructionist, takes apart current concepts and replaces them with newer, “updated” and more “accurate” models of relational analyses and quantitative derivatives, explanatory theories and interconceptual perspectives which go both beneath and exterior to the original form itself. emotions no longer trigger. they remain in stasis lacking exposure to the form to which they have been previously conditioned (genetically, socially, archetypally) to respond.

over time, philosophical thinking of this sort will tend to undermine all emotions, as the networks in the brain are rewired with new concepts and models, ones that no longer resemble the “outdated” forms of simple perception. love, sexual desire, happiness, sadness, pride, guilt, wonder, uncertainty, expectation, all of these sorts of emotional reactions become detached from the new content that has taken the place of old perceptual/conceptual forms (e.g. new metaanalyses which take the place of older unified perceptions, such as of a smile from one’s significant other, an attractive woman, a beautiful sunset, realizing a friend is in need, ownership or accomplishment of a goal, knowing you hurt another person’s feelings, a clear night sky of countless stars, starting a new job, an upcoming long weekend of fun activities). these sorts of events or phenomenon, essentially groupings of stimuli into formal elements and formal relations (relations of forms) (in that they correspond to prior experienced and emotional content) now are composed of different internal mental energies and information sets. as a consequence of philosophical thought, the brain naturally and automatically begins to overanalyse and break apart simple mental structures such as these into component parts and analyses and metaanalyses; new connections are created and old ones severed. the mind races instinctively to deconstruct and “interpret” or introspect every stimuli (external or internal) which occupies the conscious field. this leads to the inability to simply experience directly these stimuli as basic forms, and replaces this with a schizophrenic-type or dissectional model of experience, one that is always looking for underlying reasons, hidden connections or causes or structures, explanations, justifications, rationalizations, etc.

deep philosophical thought therefore leads to an operational type of thinking and experiencing which atrophies the emotions. at first they are activated less often and less intensely, and eventually hardly at all and only with regard to extreme or completely novel experiences… but as these are eventually analysed and quantified, as the individual becomes desensitized to these new experiences as well, the emotions stop responding to experience at all. a sort of dead, flat affect (in the psychological usage) replaces the wide range of colorful/diverse emotional reactions to various life situations. in part this occurs naturally as children age into adulthood, and forms become naturally more rational and interconnected/quantified, but “normal” or nonphilosophical thought still operates on a forms-based system, in that it just replaces immediate irreducible and unique forms with values-based categorization. this tends to limit the intensity of emotional reactions, but does not eliminate or significantly undermine them.

but philosophical thought goes even further and turns this meta-analysis type thinking, this continuously quantifying/rationalizing/explaining/deconstructing-type process into first the primary and then the only type of thinking that occurs. all experience becomes de and recoded. the old archetypal and preestablished forms perish. and along with them, the emotions which responded to these instinctive and conditioned forms perish as well.

Not sure if one has to delve into either the arcana of molecular biology, critical theory of deconstructionism to see this fond hope expressed through out the history of philosophy.

Surely this ”harnessing” of the emotions to the chariot of reason goes back to the time of Plato.
OK then it was some sort of concious attempt rather then a biochemical inevitability as seems to be posited here.

Also the association of a certain form of asceticism with Philosophy is obviously a common idea.

That critical/philosophical thinking may actually chemically deaden certain pathways associated with emotion is new to me andI can’t see it.

In so far as there appears to be an implication (I may have got you completely wrong here?) that this weird new aescetism if it does happens is in some way a “good thing” or at least that it is good for deep, philosophical thinkers – personally I would disagree…

Surely, for a materialist at any rate, both thoughts and emotions are “bourne” via chemical, neurological/biological means – no argument there.

My knowledge of the science is limited but the principal seems fine.

Also that there are levels – chemicals are the pixels – thought the picture - fine nice way of looking at it – again no problem here.

Finally that the basic emotions and, maybe, the more complex ones are carried by older hard-wired or built in processes seems sensible.

However by this very logic surely both emotions and thoughts are both when considered physiologically or neurologically are all simply mental events.

You are probably right in that thought can “code” – that it can generate new patterns But these must be written with the same pen and ink (still utilising existing chemistry/neurology etc), the same basic brain chemistry.
However I don’t see how this commits you to saying that these new processes some how displace the old ones (which are as you said old and probbaly evolutionaarly highly imporatnt therefore very well implanted).

I’m not sure there are necessarily such limitations.

Intuitively and personally I do much better at philosophy, thinking working on or with systems of thought - when I can associate it with emotion. Now maybe that’s some sorta personal limitation and maybe I’d better lose it!?
But it seems to persist and be common with many people including most philosophers – throughout history and right through to the present. As Nietzsche put it memorably some where at the start of the Genealogy – watch out for the point in every system where the philosopher’s opinion/bias/slant emerges.

Summarising - Some new breed of emotionally atrophied mental supermen has not arisen historically despite a hell of a lot of philosophising
(A person might cite Gurus, holy men and the like – was it what Nietzsche meant by super man – again here I can’t see it – thought being so completely associated with will and power for him?)

For instance would you have written the long, complex, thought out post above if you didn’t want to convince others – maybe even win/start a cool new row on ILP.

Philosophy in and of itself is not much of a motivator.

i couldn’t disagree more, on a number of levels

your deconstructionist approach to philosophy essentially boils it down to science, as far as i can see

i’m not sure where art, science, mathematics, or philosophy would be without intuitions and flashes of insight and inspiration - the arrival of new understanding, which is different than knowledge (knowing that x as opposed to knowing why x, why x is and must be as it is, and no way else), always seems to bring along with it a distinct aesthetic experience - even logic has a feel to it when it is properly understood, and it is all the more intense with greater depths of understanding. this feel is part of what drives our insatiable curiosity, and gives meaning to our endeavors

truth, in its most profound sense, is as much thought as it is feeling - truth is felt to the degree it is thought (understood)

understanding also crucially involves relationships, seeing the interplay and interrelations and correlations between concepts and ideas which give them content and meaning - to put it most simply: good without evil is meaningless. thus,

is nonsense, and a sure way to completely fail to understand what is expressed by a timeless masterpiece (be it a proof, a painting, a composition) - the individual pieces must be observed in their relations which constitute the whole, otherwise understanding is altogether lacking - any concept or idea standing alone is meaningless, and the deeper we delve into that one aspect of apparent reality, the less perspective we have of everything that of necessity belongs with it

the beautiful itself rests on the foundations of the necessary, and understanding necessity involves seeing both the whole and its parts as one cohesive entity - nothing is necessary about anything in particular, for only when a concept or idea is perceived in its proper place within the whole of which it is necessarily a part does any ‘thing’ carry meaning

I disagree.

From what I understood from your post, you’re talking about a form of philosophy that is exact, even quantitative. What I understand to be philosophy doesn’t really follow that definition - is there an exact philosophy? No one can really ‘measure’ philosophy; the functions of it are more intuitive and creative and the confirmation of philosophical ideas depend on reasoning and argumentation, not some measurable, quantifiable metric.

You’re talking more about intellectualism and the over-intellectualized affect that happens sometimes with overly intellectually focused individuals. This phenomenon, over-intellectualization, does affect an individual’s emotionality. Emotional constructs are eschewed in place of intellectual interpretations - hence love is seen as a mere reproductive facilitator, anger as a conflict-conducive stance, and so on.

In fact, I would say that philosophical thought facilitates emotion; it enables one to understand the meaning of emotion itself, even to value it. For ultimately, why do people philosophize if not to make sense of their emotions? Emotions of doubt, of love, of anger, of almost anything - these spurs the philosopher on towards understanding.

I think it is a common error - not necessarily a logical one - to overly value intellectualism and denigrate emotions. While passion can be base, distracting and even dangerous, what is a human being without one? Do we really wish to transform ourselves into unfeeling, intellectual machines?

I have noticed what three times great is saying inside myself. In an attempt to make sense of the world I turned to rationalization. I have come to the conclusion that all is in my mind. Reality outside of myself has seized to exist. I am the reality. A reality with rules that are consistently displayed in my mind. The only reality is the reality of the mind, my mind. This is because I can not know of any reality but the reality that is my mind. I have noticed this desensitization within myself. Reality conforms to my scheme of things and therefore my emotions are tranquilized with my thought. With this determinism comes an exceptance and therefore peace within myself that all things will run their course independent of any of my desire. When the mind no longer need the emotions for it scheme of things it will begin to destroy their strenght.

af- im certainly not denying the power of “intuitions and flashes of insight and inspiration”. i see the difference between these sorts of realizations and normal thoughts as one of degree, not one of type. occasionally we are gripped by those sorts of powerful intuitions or realizations, as if we somehow on a deeper level “see” or sense an intimate or powerful truth. i dont see these experiences as fundamentally emotional: i see them as deep unifying awareness of a comprehensive set of relations or perceptions which emerges into a single distinct realization… but that at this point, certainly it does trigger an emotional response in us.

'truth is felt to the degree it is thought (understood)" i agree. but i also think this is only one type among many of relation between the cognitive and the emotional processes… its the ‘ideal’ relationship between them, but i think that its probably the more rare of them. many people (religious, etc) are emotionally tuned to the opposite, to respond to well-crafted illusions and fantasies. and aside from that, i think that most people are naturally or automatically programmed to, to various degrees, feel emotional reactions which keep them from pursuing deeper truths via thought. i think most people think only as much as they need to, including most of us, and that the emotions therefore exist as a control or limiting function as well as a type of secondary reinforcement.

as for the rest of what you said, i agree with most of it, but it is also irrelevant from the point of view of my OP. mainly here im NOT talking about any sort of value or good/bad in emotion, or thinking, or the thesis that so-called philosophical thinking undermines emotions-- im expressly not saying either that this thesis, if true, is good or bad. im just identifying it.

itlog- yes you could call it intellectualism or overintellectualism if you want to. i just chose “philosophical thought” as the phrase to designate this sort of thinking. while writing the OP i did realize that the term is misleading. so just substitute whatever words or term you think best describes this sort of “overrationalist” or “extreme logical” approach, but keep in mind that i am referring in a large sense to how this process is unconscious and automatized. basically, the reason i chose to call it philosophical thought is because i see the process as emerging from the attitude or behavior, over time, of asking “why?” and “how?” over and over and over, of everything one experiences… in that we do not just accept our experiences as complete unified forms of perception/stimuli and need to dissect them or ask why/how until we derive deeper knowledge of the form itself, and at that point the unity and completeness/immediacy of the form is lost to this deconstructionary analysis.

emotions respond to what is given, what is immediate and apparent as if almost a sort of emotional intuition. it is this sort of unified and complete/immediate apparentness of the form, whatever form our experiences may take that identify with that stimuli which the emotions are programmed/conditioned to respond to, which is broken apart and dissected so that it is now experienced NOT as a simple apparent given form, but as a set of relational analyses and logical/linguistic constructs based in other knowledges and perceptions which are external to the immediate experiential form itself (i.e. external in that they are not part of that which the emotions were initially primed to respond).

once again im not saying my thesis here is good or bad. i have thoughts on that matter, but i am more interested in establishing the fact that this process of ‘philosophical thought undermines emotion’ exists in this manner, before trying to determine how good/bad it is for us.

rackedrick- very good points. it does seem that the process of rationalization does “bring within onesself” external reality, in that we consciously react and act as if reality were what is inside our heads-- i think the realization that thought and experience are subjectively created within the brain may cause this. once we realize that any interaction with external reality is only through an internal subjectifying process where we create conceptual and perceptual constructs, we realize that we are not interacting with “what is out there” so much as we are with what is inside us (but of course this does not preclude the fact that we are still interacting with the external, just doing it through a necessary and distorting medium)… but, even this secondary realization is almost a pschological rationalization that we use to the degree that we need or value the idea that there is an external reality that we can be aware of. a sort of anti-relativist sentiment may drive this other thought that we DO interact with external reality, just via the subjectifying process.

and i also agree that, as you say, when the mind doesnt need the emotions any more they tend to disappear. touching now a little on the further topic of, assuming my thesis is true, is it GOOD or BAD for us, yes it does seem that once we get in this overrationalist tendency that the emotions stop being generated as strongly or intensely. over time, we learn to survive and interact and experience and function ‘normally’ without the presence of these emotions, and so perhaps they do atrophy or decay. but i can also see that these emotional pathways are so ancient and hardwired that they will never vanish completely. i just think that, mainly, we re-tune our experiencing faculties (perceptions/thoughts) so much and so deeply/unconsciously that there is no possibility for ‘getting outside’ this perspective to reactivate normal emotional reactions. at the point where we overrationalize the experiences that we have and treat our perceptions and concepts as constructs for dissection and analysis, creation and destruction, emotions find no forms like those that they have evolved or been conditioned in childhood to respond to.

until the ‘philosophical thought’-type mode of experiencing changes, which once automatized is very hard or even impossible to do, the emotions will remain in a sort of stasis… but i dont necessary think that the biochemical pathways or molecules themselves vanish, even given a long time. i just think it becomes impossible to activate them.

Science has shown emotion and intellect are NOT SEPERATE, in fact one cannot function without emotions, you should all watch this video

linktv.org/video/2142/deceiving-images

Watch from 15 minutes to 25 minutes for the main points. The idea that emotion is irrelevant is a mistaken notion from the enlightenment. Books you would all find enlightening:

amazon.com/Descartes-Error-E … 0380726475

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descartes%27_Error

i am specifically NOT saying that emotions are irrelevant, from any perspective. it has nothing to do with whether emotions are “separate from intellect” or not (actually, we can function without emotions, they are not necessary per se to strict minimal biological functioning). im also not referring to any sort of enlightenment.

im merely trying to determine whether my thesis as i outline it in the OP is correct or not. i am not making a statement about whether my thesis is good or bad, whether i “like” it or not. im just trying to clarify if it is true or not. which i believe that it is.

Three times:

Even a phrase “deep unifying awareness” seems to convey an instant emotion of happiness – that lovely eureka moment when it all fits into place. Even if the emotion comes after the thought
(I’d say its absolutely contemporaneous myself – tho’ I’ve had few enough such moments!)
Then surely the emotions unleashed become desired and anticipated.

So a scientist thinking through a problem must surely be motivated by the anticpation of that flash
(not to mention grants, publications, competition with fellows and a load of other spurring and goading emotions)
His thought become permeated with emotional gratification at both a delayed and, in an anticipatory way at least, an immediate level.

One person’s thought or carefully constructed system is another’s fantastical delusion (deleuzion even)…The only difference they tend to look on them differently at an emotional level. People become very attached to their world views!

Where they go wrong in this respect for me anyway is when they form into large groups and mobs in defence of their system.

Humans seem unusual in the animal kingdom in that they are “stooped” collectively but thoughtful individually. (Kierkegaard was spot on in this – there’s very little wisdom tin “the crowd”)

Several of us got you completely wrong there it would appear…

:slight_smile:

certainly emotions serve as motivating anticipatory factors. thats probably how/why they evolved in the first place, or at least why they still exist after the advent of consciousness.

its not really what we believe; its HOW we believe it. if our beliefs are based on psychological denial or rationalization or compensation or deliberate lies or blindness or pride or vanity or desire to fit in, etc etc etc etc, then they are not justified in any light other than their usefulness in this psychological regard. however, beliefs based more in logic or reason or evidence or deduction/induction, while also not deriving any sort of absolute standard of Truth, are nonetheless justified in a difference sense than beliefs not based on these. we may affirm that one person’s truth is anothers fiction or fantasy, which is certainly the case, but thats only on the level of conscious belief or psychological utility; on the level of justification or INTENT, there will always be a fundamental difference between the religious-type and the philosophical/scientific-type belief.

sorry to hear that.

i am not saying that i do not have personal opinions on the desirability or lack thereof regarding my thesis. im just saying that right now im not intending to discuss that. in spirit of this OP and what ive written here as well, its not so much about what i “believe” or what i feel about those beliefs; its about identifying the likelihood of what i say is true regardless of personal feelings or thoughts on the matter.

i do think we can attain a certain degree of separateness (i would say objectivity but then everyone here would crucify me) regarding what we affirm as logical/reasonable/justified and what we “believe” in the sense of what we feel or desire or are conditioned to assume/perceive. metacognition can help us to attain this difference.

Three times

Its HOW we believe it - very well said!

I think this distinction (rational/irrational belief systems) comes under the category of something we all (philosophers) would like to affirm - that there’s a clear cut division between some sort of logical belief systems and ones based on faith alone (the Kirkegaardian leap)

I think this hope is vital if we are to do any philosophy!

I certainly agree with you that notions of an absolute truth and falsehood are a complete philosophical siren to various dead ends!

However day to day (outside philosophy and some more honest scientists) if anything people seem to defer to crazier and crazier beliefs (see Michael Jackson rise to the level of a minor God - google ireland reported a 3000% increase in seraches for his name - he’s 1,2 and 3 in the Irish album charts - don’t even want to speculate what thats got to in the USA) and then apply all the tools of the rational enlightenment to achieving their apparently mad goals (see under Muslim terrorists)

Aside from what’s actually happening in the world (like we ILPers care about that!)- even at a purely abstract antellectual level I’m not absolutely sure that the distinction will ever be as crisp as we (rightly in my view)want it to be.

When you have some like Dawkins (or an excellent philosopher like Daniel Denet) throwing up and then defending quite fanatically systems they see as been based on pure rational thought and empirical evidence alone
…HOW do they believe? (just on the evidence or their need to defeat “the irrational” - which shows little evidence of weakening!)

Even scientists disagree, even analytical philosophers, sometimes pretty violently and this is probably a good thing…

Sometimes it comes down to what level and what type of explanation you want (or even need emotionally or in the sense Nietzsche has it - what truths can you handle are you able for…) Explanations have to end some where as Wittgenstein (?) put it!

kp

Three Times Great, I would have to agree. Many times I have found my intution/emotions being brought into doubt or lessened by my own philosophical inclination. I just don’t react as emotionaly as I used to.

Would love to see the three times back!

I also feel that I was unfair on Daniel Dennet above - having now read a bit of him

kp

The truth is people don’t understand the basis of how truth is derived, and that there are many variations on a theme. There are many ways to say the same thing encoded differently, poetic literature vs technical language like math or scientific jargon for instance.

The truth is human beings are NOT very good at seperating truth from the ILLUSIONS of truth. To say absolute truth doesn’t exist is to deny your everyday functioning that you dodge objects so that you don’t walk or crash into them.

Absolute truth exists, it’s just that one needs the proper concepts of how truth functions in reality in ones mind before one can even start to have a discussion, we’re still a long way away from having a “paradigm of truth” as I like to call it in which all people can use a system to figure out where they made errors or mistakes in their reasoning or beliefs.

I’ve been working on such a project in my spare time but it’s an ardrous task to do oneself. Existence is truths humans talk about are DERIVED from the one truth. That is existence is form and structure. For instance every thought or perception one has, one has to DETECT that it exists first (the first truth) before one even gets to the details of what it is, how it functions and how it is relevant to ones life or society.

I think the truth is most people just don’t have the time to spend in deep philosophical thinking on these questions, even so called analytic philosophers barely have a grasp of how their own minds work and the deeper layers of hidden truths (structures) that are encoded in language for instance that enable one to communicate, and which hold the basis and secrets of seperating truth from falsehood.

Our ability to speak and perceive is absolute proof the principles of absolute truth exist, since in order to know anything one must know if something is there or not there, that is the first thing that needs to be known before any other thought can take place on a matter.

Good post and interesting post super culture!

One way out already developed as far back as the 1780s is, of course, that of Kant.
Put very simply some absolute truth(s) exist out there but he bundled off the big TRUTH(S) into a super-sensible realm or noumenon that could never be fully known.

It’s a realm of opinion and conjecture which may more and more accurately infer/describe it’s nature but that cannot be ever be fully known.

Then the normal sensible world with each truth(s) which we can maneuver around in using a priori ideas of time and causality etc already in our minds

(though at a very simplistic and inaccurate level - for instance on a day to day basis everyone acts as if teh world was flat and the sun “rises” etc)

As we develop higher level thought from simple concepts we come to ideas like a round world orbiting a sun and onwards up to relativity and quantum physics which seem to much better describe the world and, maybe, could be said to move stuff out of the noumenon into the phenomenal world. (though with quantum physics you might see things as going the opposite direction)

However though we can probe into and improve our knowledge of “how things really are” - a full and absolute knowledge of the real actual truth of things is impossible for Kant and would deny us any chance of freedom.

So that’s one way out - an arbitrary division between an imperfectly imperfect world and some deep unknowable underlying reality (its also a bit like Plato and, indeed, gnostic Christianity)

Of course a lot of people might not be happy with Kant’s arbitrary idea that we build the world from concepts in our heads
(i don’t think he’s imposed to the idea of it having inherent laws of its own - but that they can’t ever be fully accessed by us - though we can get closer/tend towards them - the size of the super sensible domain may be shrunk by our efforts?)

A lot of people may also not be happy about my fairly ignorant summary of Kant!

kp

i have no idea where you are 3XGreat, but i hope you are well and i wish you well. I loved this thread of yours as i loved most of your threads, I so enjoyed reading them. I learned from you. what i will always remember you for - among other things - is your courage to put your concepts out there, no matter how they were viewed, no matter how farfetched others thought they were. the more seemingly farfetched, the more interesting to me…and to someone with an open mind, they were not so farfetched. You stood your ground - a force of nature you are, T. I was NOT a fan, but I was an ally. I would ride your crest anytime (metaphorically speaking). you knew what i meant.

Maybe what 3XGreat is looking for here is no more nor less than what he had always looked for; namely, feedback. Sometimes we defend our concepts and other times we are simply looking to see how others view them. Defending these concepts, hugging them too close to ourselves, does not always allow us to keep an open mind, to take another look at them again as objectively as possible. I know this for a fact because when I am stubborn and know there is Something I need to look at, and refuse to, I disallow more light to come in. We look, listen; we gather as much information as our thinking minds will allow, and then we rethink That, and why do we think that, and then we return to take another look at the concept, examine its flaws and its merits as openly and realistically as we are able.

I suppose as human beings it is so easy to fall into the trap of judging others’ beliefs, whether they are religious/philosophical/emotional. We place so much importance on our own that we miss the point – it is about exchanging thoughts, concepts, our own ways of looking at the things of the world and why we do. We are willing and able to jump right in – it isn’t even about “constructive” criticism for us at times – it is about defending our own emotional beliefs – subjective truths, instead of taking a few moments to detach from ours and seeing what the other person is trying to convey. I myself am guilty of this and it would appear to me that I am more enriched when I could actually care less what I think and just pay attention to what the other is saying. Of course, at the same time, we are in here to exchange views but this does not mean that we slaughter the messenger. We simply invite him in.

i don’t know if you were applying this to other areas of one’s life, or just philosophy in general, when you use the phrase “philosophical thought” but in reading this, a deconstructionist approach to cognition and perception, would be valid and helpful in examining all areas of one life’s and could bear much fruit, especially in dealing with our emotions, focusing on this process alone, could in a sense put our emotions in the wings as it were, waiting on us, instead of us being slaves to our emotions.

i don’t know if i would go along with this. what seemingly appears to be said here is that at some point we come to feeling nothing, one way or the other. we almost become like pure thinking machines. everything becomes “automatic”, nothing emotional registers with us at all. on one level, i myself might almost wish for this - i can see the beauty of it. no emotions, no emotions leading to hurtful thoughts, nothing to conquer within ourselves and overcome. but i wouldn’t wish for it always but only at those moments when i truly needed/wanted to be emotionless. but how could we possibly know when some kind of experience we have never felt before, might come and ambuscade our instincts and our emotions. at this point, we might have to become completely sub-human, or what was the phrase, posthuman, transhuman. wonderful theory but would we really want to be emotionless manniquins? would we really want to never have to struggle to overcome ourselves? what wonderful part of our humanity would we be sacrificing to feel nothing? would it be worth the loss? i wonder how many of us would opt for this if we had the chance?

krossie

Me too.

the logic men will tell you the the opposite, that emotion clouds reason. They are right, however, its hard to be sure, since emotion loses in all debates, nevermind one specifically about reason. The logic men set up the forum, and the emotionals dont show up. The logic men win by default, and thereby, assume presence everywhere outside the forum.

if you are emotional, become an intellectual, protect your apparent weakness, (even though it is a stratedgy for survival) before you become the sub-level to a new species. Please dont react to that statement, react with.

Make the dry beg for your water with more dryness.

I don’t know where you get this. You sound like you are describing science. Where did the concepts and ideas come from that you say philosophy seeks to deconstruct? Philosophy is in reality a construction process, the process of constructing and mobilizing ideas and concepts: not looking beyond the form into the essence, but inscribing and re-inscribing the essence into the form.