Gate Control Theory named this topic, folks. I assume to make a point.
Okay, GCT.
The floor is yours.
The people of the United States of America are despicable because…?
<note to GCT: Should you require assistance compiling a list with this particular criterion, I would offer my services, maliciously, with ease.>
Open forum, my friend. Have at it.
My particular interest is in how we know that we here at ILP are so vastly superior to the normal US citizen.
That is actually quite simple Mr. Jerry, and bares no relevance to ILP as I perceive it:
Open admission of known failure. I don’t see that it makes one superior, but it is the first step into correcting the problem.
The general Amerikan public/society is so tediously preoccupied with “self-greatness theory” and capitalistic “how are we against the Joneses”, they can’t even pay attention long enough to see that there is a failure that requires attention, investigation, and correction.
The media has more influence than the parent, teacher, local politician in the meager minds of the greatest majority of this public. Anyone who can’t see that as not only pathetic, but apodictically dangerous … is obviously part of the problem.
The short of it is that American Idol and Jerry Springer control the masses.
I’m part of the problem then, Mastriani. Because I’m not seeing this. I’m seeing honest, hardworking people, raising their kids, trying to enjoy life, living the best way they see how, in accordance with their own subjective values, as opposed to some sort of non-existent “objective†values that we apparently think they ought to live by.
Your complaints are of human nature, found both within and without the borders of my country.
Mr. Jerry, I live in Amerika as well, for the time being.
Well then sir, we have a difference of perspective that is not likely reconciled with any amount of verbosity of vernacular.
The difference of perspective tells us something, doesn’t it? Something important I think.
I’m afraid you are going to have be a tad more elaborate sir.
Tells us what? We are different? Age? Education? Philosophy? Faith?
I would only suggest that there are a multitude of ways to consider things, one of those things being how people ought to behave themselves and live their lives. It strikes me as arrogance to condemn, by how they choose to live, the entire citizenry of a nation.
I think the author on the Daily Show last night summed it perfectly.
Bush has given up on the US. He’s enacting these ridiculous laws like the new health care one to simply push the process along. Iraq, just like everything else since the switch the free market is based on Oil and we won’t be out of Iraq until we can reap the maximum benefits for such.
The reason we’re seeing the states turn into this military state is because Bush is fucking you over and he doesn’t want people to get too unruley.
I mean… the US deficit is to the point there the interest is exceeding the principal… and what does Cheney say to this? ‘No one is going to make us pay anyways’
Bush is riding out the economical tail end of a country he could have saved instead of driving it into the ground because it can make him and the rest of those bozos more money .
Something big is coming… and I’m scared shitless.
Again Mr. Jerry, our perspectives are summarily different.
I will agree that each should be “free”, (if such a state can truly be said to exist), to live out life with limited confines and condemnation*.
*To live in a society such as this, comes measures of responsibility, both personal and civic. To my perception, both have been sanctimoniously put to death, and the nation will fall as she is left untended. Then as history has shown us, there will be great wailing and moaning and sorrow, along with enormous herds of sheeple crying, “how could this happen, why didn’t someone tell us?”
I will not, of my own person, accept those excuses. We have left this government to its’ own devices for far too long, and the lurking stalker of freedom is those who openly profess to be its’ protectorate. Having studied dutifully the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, and the letters of Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, and James Madison, the past is clear: this was intended to be a republic of states, and the federal government was only to intervene for national defense and protection of civil rights.
What we have is a Frankenstein of special interest money, from the hands of corporate whores, that no longer serves the populace. Honestly, those who blame solely the current administration are failing miserably to study history, this goes back to “Screw Deal” of FDR. I am speaking of the historicity of the “Second New Deal” as the one that created the class conflict and gave ultimate unConstitutional power to the feds.
Society has thus been demoralized, it’s education shammed, and it’s character weakened by the breach. After so many decades of neglect of observation, the Fed is now an entity, entirely outside the civic sphere, and a malignant organism of self-service.
As I said previously, we are not apt to find a ground of agreement.
I think you’d be surprised at just how much we have in common, Mastriani. Anybody who has followed my rantings around here for any length of time knows my passion for individual freedom from the constraints of over-zealous governance. The men you have mentioned are heroes of mine.
Our difference is that I don’t have the apocalyptic vision of the end of my country’s days that most seem to have around here. I have a profound belief in the goodness and intelligence of my fellow countrymen, and a profound belief that in the worst of times, the right people will come along. There are Jeffersons and Franklins and Madisons still to come. We are a freedom-loving people and freedom will ultimately rule the day.
We’re going to be just fine.
Ah, well then sir, it is our faith in human character where we deviate.
I am a misanthrope, and I have neither faith nor trust in other human beings.
I simply can’t mount your optimism in the face of an absentee society.
We each have to make this choice, whether or not to have faith or trust in other human beings. I have made a different choice.
I’m wondering then how it is possible to have faith and trust in yourself?
A
Then as I said earlier Mr. Jerry, we are not likely to find common ground.
Always the keen observer angel.
I do not believe, correct me if I err in saying this, that I have ever professed a belief in my self. I am acutely aware of the failings of faith and trust of self. We are always the very first that we let down.
Mastriani,
I can certainly understand your disallusionment with government. The history of ‘government’ in the rest of the world, and particularly in Europe, doesn’t give one much confidence, does it?
I’ll also agree that the big dog has fleas. What passes for government in the U.S. is both a shame and a shambles.
Without putting words in Jerry’s mouth, I think one has to focus on the people who are busy grinding out their existence as best they can, not the politicians or the big money people who control them. American society and it’s people aren’t the media stereotypes so easily dismissed. There is a fiber in it’s people that perhaps is invisible to all but those who have lived as an American for a long enough period of time to sense the underlying community.
Yes, much of our society is either asleep or flying around in space panties. We are led by the biggest collection of buffoons (left and right) in our history. But scrape away all the frippery and you find the same core of people you would find anywhere.
If the world wants to truly ‘see’ the American people, all they have to do is pull another Pearl Harbor. We’ve left our blood in every nation in Europe. Ask you’re grandparents. We aren’t always right, and we certainly fail to do the right thing at the right time, but selling the American people short is a big mistake. Mr. “average” American is exactly the same as Mr. “average” any place you’d care to go.
I’ve no problems with anyone finding fault with government - anywhere. But people aren’t that different anywhere. Everyone is just looking for a pleasant way to get through the day without hurting themselves or anyone else.
Sorry Jerry, I didn’t mean to wrap myself in the flag. It really is out of character for me, but we need to begin focussing on our alikes and stop the insanity of emphasizing our differences.
JT
Thank you for your insight brother tenative.
Perhaps I am a bit remiss in not pointing out that this country does not hold wholesale monopoly on the idiotic.
In truth though, I do not see any longer the grace, flexibility, and strength of character that always brought to me the sense of awe and nobility that I found so consistently in my elders. I’m sorry, I just don’t see it in my generation’s society.
Very well said, JT.
Wrap yourself in the flag here anytime.
(space panties???)