Popular Christianity

[cybersage]

Yes, this doctrine of grace is in the scriptures, but the question begging tone is not something I am interested in responding to. These kind of answers are better for Sunday school. They are not philosophy.

Here is one scripture for you. Joshua 24:15 KJV. You asked for a list, but I can tell you haven’t thoughtfully considered what I previously wrote.
Doubtless this will not satisfy you, but I am looking for philosophers to exchange ideas with, not pedagogs.

@chanbengchin

@cybersage

The problem is that if I do not in some way choose God for myself and all “my” salvation is a unilateral work of the Maker, then how is it that I have merited anything, heaven or hell …

Simple. You dont! You have absolutely no merit. Heard of something called Grace?

@cybersage

I have to in some way be responsible for what happens or I can in no be held responsible for what happens.

If you love God you will be responsible. If you dont nothing will make you responsible: no rule, no law, not even the threat of death and punishments, again consider historical Israel.

@cybersage

… but I think we have over simplied the value of these passages. What is God saying then when he says that he has chosen us and not us him? I think that it is too simplistic to say that he is denying the importance of our using our agency to choose to obey. There are simply too may passages to the contrary.

And these are? Just quote me one unequivocal example.

And why cant it indeed be simple? Jesus spoke very simply and plainly didnt he, eg I chose you, you didnt choose me.

@cybersage

… God is the arbitrary one, not us. This would be a denial of free agency.

Have you not heard God said, “Esau I hate, Jacob I loved”? and “I have mercy on whom I have mercy”? Sure God is arbritary, or else God is not God. As to free agency, are you sure you are truly free? or are you a bond slave to sin, inescapeably destined to do its bidding that leads to death?

@cybersage

If God is responsible for all these decisions, then who really cares what we do. It was all predetermined …

Love, my dear, love … I care because I love, and not for rewards or merits. I dont care for those. I already have everything. No merit can compare, if at all you dare compare.

And I dont care if God send me to heaven or hell, for all I know is that I love God, for he loved me. And I will go to hell myself for those I love, for heaven is not heaven unless ALL those I loved are with me.

@cybersage

… but it sure seems as though we can decide for ourselves whether or not to obey the commandments and be baptized, go to church, pay tithes, etc.

I shall leave the last word to the bible: Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
[Col 2:20-23]