Pornography

I listened to a NPR or CBC radio thing on porn yesterday. The guest talked about the dehumanization and demeaning impacts on women. He summarily dismissed the token opposition submitted by the interviewer, referencing the opinions and studies of others. His attitude came across as that typical rightous indignation.

I’ve heard it all before. But it does have me thinking.

  1. The guy said that much of the mainstream stuff was abusive and agressive, with undertones of, if not what might be deemed, outright violence.

  2. He also said that it was important to spin the porn in away that would allow men to believe that women actually liked it.

  3. He also referenced black male(s) on white female porn being like by white males in that it actually enhanced the white male desire to further degrade white women.

1.a. He seemd to be talking about more than “real” violence or the fantasy representation of real violence. Rather, he seemed to be throwing the very simple act of sex into that catagory, merely because of the "harder, harder, harder, pounding away that can be part of the sex act; the same thing you see animals engaged in naturally.

So, is the act itself a violent act? Is it inherently demeaning to “get fucked” as opposed to being the fucker? He seems to be over-reacting. Would the very simple video-taping of a good sound fucking constitute a demeaning and violent, pornographic thing?

I think he’s got his own mental problems if he things so, but I’m will to hear someone try and articulate his case better than he did, because even though I’ve heard all this stuff before, something about the interview made me more uncomfortable than in the past. Maybe 'cause I’m older and wiser. I don’t know.

2.a. Do women like sex? I know they do, but my question is not completely rhetorical. Is it not a good thing that men would want to believe that women like sex when they appear to be liking it? When I was growing up, it seemed like the idea was women played stash with the pussy and it was a “gift” to men who exhibited the proper behavior. If a women does like sex, isn’t it more demeaning and dehumanizing to her to act as if she doesn’t actually like it, and to put her in that “giver” catagory instead of an equal sharer catagory? Why would it be bad to see a female porn star laughing or smiling or apparently enjoying herself if what is happening does not involve any physical or emotional harm? Or, again, is an otherwise objectively harmless act actually demeaning? Take facials for example.

3.a. I always thought guys liked watching interacial just because most black porn stars are hung like horses and not because of any demeaning thing toward women.

Nonetheless, the guy does have me looking at women differently. He said his goal was to move beyond looking at women at all, but, rather, to look at them as humans. Okay, but doesn’t that, to a certain extent, deny the male his maleness too? Are we all droids?

P.S. If I misrepresented the guy’s position, I appologize. It’s just the way it came across.

Thoughts?

Looking at women as humans denies males their maleness?

What is sex, but a violent act?
The physical screeching of pleasure/love into the abyss of death, denying it all purchase on life, either with procreation, the connection of 2(3, 4 or 5+, I ain’t judgin’) people, or simply pure sensory avarice.
Sex is a declaration of war on the nothingness of death.
Screw that narrow-minded idiot, preaching his spew(literally…heck, I volunteer).

agreed. Sex is violence.

Slap that ass.

As long as the women are not forced and are happy who the f. cares? It is their life let them live it. Jeez. Why someone is spending their life railing against porn should be the more important question.

tell us about your sex life, I mean, your healthy loving relationship with your husband.

To phrase it better, how do you rail . . . ?

How much money does he have vs. his apealing brain characteristics.

jumping to conclusion again. got to get my exercise.

no it’s not, now slap that ass again

Sex is violence. It is literally a stabbing motion. :laughing:

Well, yes, to a certain extent. I guess the male would not lose his maleness, but he would be denying it to the extent men look at women as women instead of as humans.

Let me extrapolate:

I am not the one who drew the bifurcation here between humans and men and women. I am working with the argument given. If humans are sexual beings and men are allowed to see that when looking at women, then fine. But if looking at women not as women, but only as human beings, then as non-women and non-men, you are taking sexuality out of the equation. To that extent you are denying the maleness of men who see a specific female sexual being when looking at female humans. They then become humans looking at humans, not men looking at women.

The only women I look at as only humans are the ones I am not sexually attracted to. All others I look at as human women, because I am a man. Men do that. (I suspect women do too, but not being one, I won’t pretend to know. Likewise, the gay thing makes no difference and the argument would apply equally as well.) If a women that I am sexually attacted to want that taken out of the equation, and wants to be viewed only as a human, then she must turn me off somehow, or help me deny my maleness. Beautiful young girls can usually do this by opening their mouths and talking. Older attractive women usually are smart enough to convince me that I don’t want to view them as women. Often as not, though, once they have suceeded, I see a certain amount of chagrin in them when the best they can get out of me is treatment as a human. But by then, it’s usally too late to reinvigorate my interest in them as anything other than human. Therein lies the irony about “liking it” or “not liking it.” What’s a man to do? I just do what I’m told.

Oh, I didn’t realize you meant ‘only human’. I thought you meant ‘also human’ or something similar.

I think people often tend to be nervous of anything that makes them fit into some simplified conceptual category in other people’s minds - and with good reason. In some ways though life is like a stage where we put on costumes and act out parts. Some people are more comfortable with that level of theatricality than other people. The real question for me is whether theatricality and genuineness are mutually exclusive. I prefer to think that they are not. Thus, sex can be both loving and fun.

And you jump so wonderfully, you must be practicing on others not just me. :laughing:

We rail just fine. You have no need of details, those are private.

We are poor right now but, having only our mortgage as debt, we are not in bad shape. His mind qualities have not diminished in my eyes or soul. I love him more now than whe we were young. You tend to do that when you marry a friend that you love dearly. We still actually have fun and enjoy being with each other. I do hope you get so lucky.

Well, the guy on the radio may very well have meant both, but the context of the discussion and his prior statements made it sound exclusive.

If it was both, then the sex might occur as your “loving” kind, so long as she was on top and it was clear she was doing him a favor, and it might even be fun if she was beating him with a whip and it was for her august pleasure and against his will.

Heaven forbid he should enjoy a money shot or a good agressive pounding. Indeed, if you see her twisted facial expression, it must be pain, humiliation and degradation; not an orgasm or sheer “in the moment” experience. On the other hand, if you see a smile on her face, then it’s just porn industry acting, and trying to assuage the fragile male ego and make him feel that what he is doing while he jerks off is okay with mommy and daddy and the female population at large.

Okay, okay, I’m misrepresenting the guy on the radio, but damn, it sure came across that way. That is why I came here, to see if anyone, especially women, might be able to articulate his case for him in a more cogent and less indignant fashion.

He sounds like a whipped mommy’s boy? Or perhaps repressed? never got any? women turn him down?

There are plenty of porn flicks where the women are forced and abused. they are to my understanding called underground flicks or something? Not legal at all.

Most are not that way. Women are getting paid for something that they enjoy. Is that not what all parents want for their kids? A job that they enjoy. They pay taxes so whats the beef?

The guy sounds like he needs to get fluffed.

Lucky you. Let me ask this of you and you feminine sensiblities, how would a guy meet a girl, if he doesnt have a car or much money? Even if he has the potiential to be sucessful, how does he convey this to such a girl.

I’d love to meet someone while I was nothing, so I knew when I became something, they didnt care. Is that too much to ask. . .

More:

I see lots of stuff in porn that I find extremely sexually stimulating that I would NEVER broach with a real women precisely because it DOES seem like it could easily be percieved as degrading or demeaning. Yet the ONLY time that porn IS extremely sexually stimulating is when the women in the porn appears to be genuinely enjoying herself. Laughing, giggling, smiling, etc.

Yet who knows if it’s acting or not? Women have been trained from birth to smile, convincingly, even when they don’t mean it. Which brings us back to that question of enjoyment.

Then you have your chicks who flat-out convince you, through logical argument and otherwise, that they do indeed enjoy all kinds of kinky, fun stuff that might otherwise appear demeaning or could be deemed degrading.

So along comes dudes (and women) like the one on the radio, throwing a cold bucket of water on the whole thing and making a man wonder, “What the fuck?”

Hell, most men are decent and don’t want to treat anyone less than human, but here we are, back at the dance, going around and around and around, playing all the bullshit games. No one knowing.

And, to the extent women are stuck in the same fucking circus, I feel for them too. Jeesh!

Whatever. There’s your vent for the day. Discuss among yourselves.

No its not too much to ask in fact it should be asked.

You sound like my husband he had no car and no money when we met, I paid for most things and we used my car. Kev, there is no easy answer.

We were a blind date. So maybe don’t write those off. People often know us better than we think they do. Accept blind dates only if the girl knows your status. if she accepts then go.

Also to meet women, go to places where you are most comfortable and can be yourself. Don’t go to normal date meeting places like bars and such. If you like fishing go somewhere that people tend to congregate to fish. You might be surprised at some of the catches you could make. Be who you are.

You convey your potential by being relaxed and allowing it to come about in a natural conversation. don’t push.

You can meet a number of women doing different things, that don’t require money or cars. We have interests too. And by Golly we are broke and need to have fun. Two broke people can do more interesting things together if they just relax and not try to impress.

Women want security yes, but, the best security we want is to wake up in the safe secure arms of the man we love. It does not have to be a mansion or paid for. As long as you are there she will be there too. Look at how many women willingly live with their man in poverty across this world and here … does that really sound like we are all predatorial materialistic creatures?

Perhaps you have been looking in the wrong places without being true to who you are. If that is the case then you can only expect to find the wrong women for you. Oh sure you may get laid a few times and have her around for a few years but, eventually you will have to come shining through and bam. Waldo the divorce lawyer knocks on your door.

Go find her without really trying to look, be relaxed and be yourself, that is the best bait for mate fishing.

Gaaahh, I have rambled Sorry. but, like I said there is no easy answer.

Yeah, if I were in the market I’d be looking at the Hobby Lobby. There are some hot chicks hanging out there, not drunk, not stupid and, well, hot.

I’ve often thought that what (many) women want is a feeling of safety. But in order to obtain it, sometimes life forces you to sacrafice some liberty. Ask George Bush. Fuck George Bush. Take your liberty or take your death. Go armed into the night and Thelma-and-Louise it. Real men want that in a woman. That way we can go out and fight for liberty with women at our side.

Hey, Kriswest, you’re a woman: what about that crap I spewed up there in my previous post?

Get away Gadfly, she’s my source.

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. :laughing:

Haha! :laughing: =D>

Photographed rape is wrong, but pornography is consentual…right?