Anyway, knowing what bodybuilding entails, the lifestyle, the eating, the steroids, the obsessiveness of it all, the altered perception of your body…
It seems to me that pro bodybuilding and anorexia are like two polar opposites of the same continuum.
I agree, bodybuilding can become an addiction. I saw a documentary once where some guy had developed cysts in his arm from the use of steroids, he removed them with a syringe ineptly badly damaging the muscle in the process, something he filmed on TV, his arm has never recovered and now looks disproportionate to the other arm. It was gross, if I remember the documentary I’ll link it. It is at the point where you are doing serious harm to yourself you should quit, like with any addiction. But feeling the burn is a considerably addictive natural high.
Basically there is nothing wrong with body building but the competitive side of it can be very damaging to your body, by which I mean, the use of steroids in particular, which is something they all seem to use at a professional levl. Heart problems, arthritis, infertility can all be caused by wanting to be so much bigger or more defined than the other man. Not to mention the psychological problems that come with messing with hormones.
Just to be clear, I’m talking about professional bodybuilding. I’m talking about those guys that compete in stage.
The IFBB guys.
And yeah, those are all on steroids. When you’re competing in that level steroids are a necessity.
What most people don’t know is that there are a lot of people out there who also have taken steroids and yet don’t look like that.
You can’t assume that someone didn’t take steroids just because they look smaller then Arnold or Jay Cutler. Not everyone that takes steroids will look like that. Genetics play a huge part in it. Most fitness models take steroids occasionally. Another misconception is that steroids will only make you bigger. Well, some of them will, but there also steroids that make you loose fat incredibly fast. Again, a lot of fitness models use them. I’m not saying for people to go out there and start accusing others left and right of taking steroids. just that you can’t really dismiss the possibility that someone has used steroids just because they’re small or skinny.
Anyway, I don’t think it’s just the steroids that are bad. The whole lifestyle is completely obsessive and most bodybuilders have a completely altered perception of their body.
Also there’s an amazing documentary on steroids called " Bigger, Faster , Stronger". Definitely one of the best documentaries I have ever seen regardless of the subject.
And yeah I knew what you were driving at, I just wanted to put it in perspective.
I agree does anyone think that jpeg you provided makes the guy look good? It is an obsession plain and simple you’ll get no argument from anyone I think there.
Once steroids are in the mix of ‘symptoms’ then you can call it a disorder, in fact minimally it is an addiction to a controlled substance. If a bodybuilder is clean I would say one has as much grounds to call what they do a mental disorder as any other activity that radically alters body and psyche: even being a chess grandmaster could be on such a list. This commits generally a fairly young child to a very skewed set of activities, limits potential for social relations, creates a great deal of stress and puts their entire schedule outside social norms. I don’t think i want to have that diagnosis be used, but I think the point of the OP is a good one.
So steroids is where you draw the line. Interesting.
Anyway, the difference between pro bodybuilding and chess or any other activity for that matter is that bodybuilding implies a very strict and specific lifestyle. A lifestyle that has to be maintained 24/7.
It also requires an absolute focus on your body and physical image which, I believe, over some time, can be very detrimental.
Well, it’s tricker than that for me. I am pretty libertarian. I am not sure I would outlaw steroids for adults. However since they are illegal substances when used by bodybuilders and are addictive, it pretty much goes without saying that it would be considered a mental disorder of some kind.
Without them, I tend to think of bodybuilding as sick. That’s my personal opinion. But I would consider all sorts of things sick that it gets incredibly tricky to label symptomatic of a mental disorder. I think many (most?) stock traders have disorders if this door is opened - and really it is already opened.
Well, I did say a grandmaster or someone with base skills to try for it. That is just as 24/7.
Sure, I am not saying the pattern is healthy, I would think that generally it is quite the opposite. I wouldn’t want my kid to live the childhood and teen years of a budding grandmaster either however. Ballet dancers would be another perhaps closer example. I know people in that field. Even very successful ones ahve severely damaged bodies when they are being phased out of the field in their 30s. The training almost negates healthy sleep and diet - let alone its potential contribution to eating disorders. Given the focus, there is also not so much these people can do, except teach and the retirement plans are nearly non-existent even at the best companies. So you have all these people trying to be teachers and the demand is not there. They have been given steroids, off stage, so they can keep going, pain killers, etc. Their joints are torn apart, bones malformed, back problems and so on.
And let’s not forget a professional football player or boxer.
Regarding legality, I think all drugs should be legalized. All of them. Obviously the educational system needs to be reformed. And the criminal system as well. But that’s a whole other subject in itself and I don’t wanna get into that right now.
But one thing is obvious, if steroids are illegal because cheating is not permitted, then golf players shouldn’t be able to have lasik surgery, musicians shouldn’t be able to take beta blockers and so forth. This is one of the things that is addressed in the documentary I mentioned.
I’m assuming lasik surgery is laser eye surgery for mypopia. Well, I think that is a different thing. This is considered a generally safe procedure and one that any one of us can decide to get. It is not addictive and does not lead to various kinds of physical breakdown. yes, one can get rather bad side effects.
I don’t think the issue with steroids is cheating exactly. I would say it is that it is an effective training protocol that is very damaging to the body. This means that sports will be dominated by people who treat themselves very badly and likely die young.
Very effective training methods that do not have such effects are ok. One could argue that interval training or plyometrics are cheating, because for many sports if you do these you will beat people who don’t. But generally speaking these do not destroy your body. so allowing them does not suddenly mean that for anyone to win a sport they must destroy their bodies.
oddly enough I might allow steroid use for non-professional atheletes - and also those not competing at high levels in amateur atheletics like the Olympics. But not allow pros or high level amateurs. Just because the sports would end up having winners who not so long after would die rather horrifically and also a lot of winning atheletes who would, well, be incredibly violent.
I am not sure that is a defensible position, but it’s my first reaction. I probably wouldn’t want police to be on steroids either, for example.
But lasik surgery clearly gives a huge advantage to a golf player. They’re enhancing their capabilities. If “natural talent” is all you can use then that should be forbidden as well. I’m not saying it should ACTUALLY be forbidden, just that if you forbid steroids and justify it by saying that cheating should not be permitted then there’s a whole other myriad of things that should be forbidden.
What about pornstars who take viagra? What about American air force soldiers who are required to take speed?
yes, but my argument is that natural talent and cheating are not the reasons steroids are illegal. Obviously incredibly ornate and taxing training is allowed, strange diets, etc. The criterion is damage to the body. If natural talent was the only factor then golfers couldn’t even wear glasses and they could only compete and not train. So I don’t base my issue with steroids on cheating, and I don’t really think that’s why they are forbidden. All sorts of training would then be forbidden.
i do it for a few reasons… to be in shape/to look good/to relieve stress/to justify being shallow to myself/to be productive and useful when otherwise doing nothing (i’d probably being playing video games if i wasn’t in the gym)
i don’t look like a pro bodybuilder at all, i can’t seem to lose enough body fat to show abs, and i’ve never used steroids
anorexia is seen as a disorder most of the time… although in some cases… aka modeling, it’s encouraged/expected… it actually is useful in a twisted way
i can’t say though… that bodybuilding appears to be a disorder ‘most of the time’ … on top of the reasons that i do it, which i think are pretty healthy… some people make it a social activity, hobby
when people get to the professional level… i’d limit its relevance to the anorexia continuum similarly to how i’d limit modeling
i think its probably true that for some people bodybuilding is similar to anorexia… and if bodybuilding ever gets to the point where its harmful to ones self or others… such as frequent injuries, uncontrollable aggression, etc… sure i’ll say they’re on the same level (the picture in your OP is disgusting)
none of this encourages me to stop my half-assed long-term attempt to look a fitness model
Well but that is why they are forbidden in America. Because they are considered cheating and Americans love their sports. Don’t you remember the whole baseball scandal a few years ago?
But that model doesn’t really make sense. Of course it is cheating in the sense that it is forbidden and if you use them you have to find a way around the system of checks. But if everyone was allowed to use them, it could not be considered cheating. All sorts of things give athelelte’s an edge. Any new training trick can give an athelete an edge, like the whole shift to weight training that involves complex movements used in the specific sports. It would be unfair if secretly some athelete’s used these if there was a ban on them, likewise plyometrics. But there is no ban because these are considered safe.
There is nothing inherently unfair about steroids. Any more than an individualized diet muscle gain is unfair. Unfairness comes in when only some are able to use something.
For Babe Ruth there are hudrends of things that are unfair that are also perfectly acceptable in baseball. That guy just did not have the access to the training technology, computer movement analysis software, dietary knowledge, periodization weight training, spriint training behind vehichles, plyometrics and a whole host of other stuff. His records got beaten by people who had access to things - also including steroids for some of them - he did not. But any current athelete only can claim unfairness if they were stopped from using something others managed to use.
