Why can we have social programs targeted racially, like school programs targeted at black kids, but not a security program targeted racially or by belief, i.e.: one that focuses on muslims? Why are we allowed to allocate resources effectively when it comes to schoolchildren, but not when it comes to “national security” (queue Chris Farley air quotes)?
*Here, I’ll allow this con-man to hold onto my gold chains, because I need to allocate my resources effectively… I’ll also invest in a poodle-trimming company, that sells Pogs and inscence on the side.
Some things “work”, and some things “don’t work”. 
That response was a let-down, squiggle. How would it be less effective to check only those of the religion that produces terrorists than to check everybody?
talk about a let down… the religion that produces terrorists. Are you kidding?!?
The IRA, basque separatists, the Tamil Tigers, Timothy McVeigh… no muslims there eh zeusy?
-gemty
Chuckle,
Profiling is not necessarily racial nor does it target certain faiths. Read how to profile codes. It revolves around behavior.
As to the IRA, Tamil Tigers, Basques and McVey, they do/did not call for a world wide anything, just freedom from their rulers.
I could go into the politics regarding these movements, but the topic is profiling and Muslim fanatics, which there are plenty. Read what exMuslims claim regarding their faith for insight:
apostatesofislam.com/
aspacia
That’s true, profiling isn’t necessarily racial or faith based. But this one would be.
To be a terrorist, one doesn’t have to call for world wide change, your objection is irrelevant to the claim that zeusy made. He referred to Islam as “the religion that produces terrorists.” I was simply pointing out that other religions produce terrorists too.
There are muslim fanatics, but there are Protestant, Catholic, Hindu and every other stripe of fanatics.
As for Islam having “plenty” of fanatics what is the rate of fanaticism in Islam per thousand adherents? Can you demonstrate a clear causal relationship between being a muslim and being a “fanatic” (whatever that is?) Is it higher than other religions, or should I just take your word that there are “plenty”?
-gemty
Your point is well taken, and I agree with your stance. Unfortunately, I am one tired lady and haven’t the energy to pull up the numbers. However, simply read the news regarding the numerous beheadings of Catholic children in Malaysia (?) and priests. How many Buddhists, Christians, Hindus have been going of rampages of late? At the moment most of the terrorism in the world stems from Muslim terrorists murdering in the name of faith.
With regards,
aspacia
But, the terrorism we’re going after is Muslim terrorism, isn’t it? I mean, we’re not in Ireland messing with the IRA, because they don’t seem to pose a threat. We were attacked by Muslims…
Let’s go into this historically. Was the internment of the Japanese justified?
9066 (?) is still legal except for communists. Many second and third generation Japanese American citizens were put in camps and had to sell their property for much less than it was worth. They and their descendants were recently economically compensated for this. Most of these Japanese were not a threat.
Part of the problem is that it is condoned to lie to one’s enemy and wife, and that Allah’s law supercedes man’s law.
However, we have 4,000 Muslims honorably serving in our military. Not all Muslims want the imposition of Sharia Law in the West and many hate it, but the many clerics, imams, muftis demand it and impose it upon their congregation regardless of western law.
How about we round up those who try to impose their laws upon our lands and deport them? Legally we cannot do this with citizens, free speech rights, but free speech has its limits when it causes a threat to safety.
Just my two cents.
With regards,
aspacia
Wow. And while we do that, why don’t we just deport anyone who doesn’t agree with the government. Or the Christian church. Or any other institution arbitrarily identified as ‘American’. Pretty soon everyone here will just think the same thing (or pretend to think the same thing). Hey! Now the United States has become analogous to the Communist nations we so despised! But at least now we’re ‘safer’.
The internment of Japanese Americans was a terrible wrong in society. I mean, it was obviously racially motivated (German Americans weren’t under suspicion). I know that my great- grandmother was not a Japanese spy and yet she and her family had all their possessions taken away and had to live in shitty conditions for a few years and after it was all over had to start with nothing. That, right there, is what we call injustice. It’s analogous to a person being imprisoned and fined for a crime they did not commit.
It really is fascinating to me how easy it is in our racialized society for people to attack those who look different because of some assumed group homogeneity. Most Muslims aren’t even from the Mid East (Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world). Terrorism is not a product of the religion of Islam itself but rather social factors such as the creation of Israel. Moreover, an extremely large amount of people from the Mid East (people who look Arab) are not Muslim but Christian and other religions. My dad always got stopped and searched at airports because he had dark skin. But he’s Japanese! Making assumptions about a person just because you percieve that they are a part of a certain group (which you have a flawed definition of in the first place) is a very dangerous thing to do, and doesn’t make anyone safer.
We don’t have to assume that every muslim is a terrorist, or even that most are. The fact is, you’re more likely to be an Islamic terrorist if you believe in Islam.
As for the internment of the Japanese, would the internment have been correct if we had interned the German-Americans too? Let’s say we took all the Germans and the Japanese and put them in camps, and kept their stuff but gave it all back to them when we let them out. Never mind that it’s practically impossible for such a system to work, but if it worked in such a way, would it be justified?
How am I going to be incorrect when I say that people of the ethnicity of our attackers are more likely to attack us? Where’s the logical error, other than in execution?
No, internment because of past family national affiliation could NEVER be justified in that way. Why should a completely innocent person be imprisoned for crimes that they did not commit. That would be a gross violation of human rights.
And the chances that any Muslim is an extremist are low. That’s like saying every male should be suspected of being a rapist and kept under surveillance. And the fact that the implementation is very flawed and can never be otherwise means that it just shouldn’t happen period.
A brilliant argument by definition.
No, it still wouldn’t be justified. And don’t forget Italians.
First of all, Islam is a religion not an ethnicity. But, the logical error is that the fact that some people who attacked us were Muslim, doesn’t increase the likelihood that any other Muslim might attack us because being Muslim isn’t necessarily the cause of the fact that they attacked us. In other words… you can’t infer causation from correlation.
cheers,
gemty
When I used the word ethnicity I was referring to the internment of the Japanese.
How long must we wait till we can infer causation?
my apologies, I assumed you were referring to the present.
As far as correlation, we can wait till the cows come home - no matter how strong the correlation is we cannot assume that because two attributes have a causal relationship because they are correlated. That means we can’t claim that A causes B, or that B causes A because they are correlated - no matter how perfect the correlation may be.
So, even though the terrorists that attacked on 9/11, etc. were Muslims, we should not conclude that being Muslim made them terrorists, or that being terrorists made them muslims. From that data, we cannot assume any higher incidence of extremism among muslims than any other religion.
This might sound irrelevant, but I think that if we’re going to target a large group of innocent people, we should at least have established the fact that whatever attribute we have targeted is causal. (ie, an excellent predictor of them actually being a terrorist)
I won’t disagree with profiling if someone can actually demonstrate that there are more Islamic terrorists per capita than other religions, but until then, we have what might be an entirely spurious correlation. In other words… a coincedence.
cheers,
gemty
Because social programs try to offset the negative effects of racism that are already in the system. Security Programs would perpetuate said racism.
And for the Christian, Christ’s law supercedes man’s law
Sounds like a plan, lets deport religious zealots that try to amend the constituion to enshrine within it their arcane morality. Goodbye Conservative Christian base. Goodbye aspacia.
All rights have limits when they become threats to safety, but there is no accurate way of determining whether they really are or not. Have you seen Judgment at Nuremberg? The Germans during the 3rd Reich justified what they were doing by claiming the abused to be a threat to their security. Good movie.
I guess that’s true.
I was unclear, my apologies. How about we round-up non citizens trying to impose thier laws upon our lands which is exactly what Jihadists want to do. They want to change our freedoms of speech, our laws, and force us all to submit to their religion. Now is that clear enough for you? If you enjoy your freedoms of speech, have enough sense to fight against those who wish to inhibit this right. Try going to the Middle-East and have freedom of speech. I wonder which body part you will lose.
I made this exact claim didn’t I. Did you carefully read my post. Not one person said beans regarding what the Democrat FDR did, and neither did others.
The creation of Israel is a political factor, not social. Also, there have been more than 60 new countries created since Israel and not one person is saying screaming about this. Why? This is also a racial/religious discrimination. Jews have taken it on the chops a whole lot longer than any other ethnic group in history, including Blacks. I am talking 6,000 years since Pharoah.
So what? The vast amount of terrorism that occurs is from Muslims and you know it.
And I look Mexican and when pulled over, which is seldom, they immediately know I am not illegal. So the fuck what? I do not care as I am anti ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, as is my mother a legal immigrant. I work with many legal immigrants who also dislike the fact that illegals do not follow the law, and jump through the hoops as they, and my mother did.
Making assumptions regarding a person’s behavior may save your life, so be happy for profiling.
Quit pulling the race card, this is a matter of safety and economics.
aspacia 