First of all, pleased to make your acquaintance. I’m the n00b here, come sauntering in disrespecting the veteran (you). So on garnering respect or likeability, the onus is on me, and I perhaps came off as unnecessarily coarse.
But my intention was to back Nikol_numb’s general contention in saying that sure, the field of psychology might meet the textbook criterion of a bona fide “science,” but it’s sure not an exact science. Then I saw a lot of pseudoscientific declarations, broad generalizations, and oversimplifications in your and kyry’s posts which collectively (even if unintentionally) served to sort of team up on the guy, and well… I couldn’t resist temptation!
I am not so sure that Nikol_numb is uneducated, and he has every bit as much right to make his stance as you or I do. In fact, the guy has some salient points: “Why does one need science to understand the human mind,” he wonders; and “I believe understanding the mind comes from a gift of compatibility with the human race,” by which he was trying say an empathic disposition towards others - but I knew what he meant. Those are sound points to propound, Rafa.
Overall I thought he raised a good question worthy of discussion, certainly worthy of more than the cutesy ad hominemesque jabs that placed the poor chap in a defensive posture.
Well, I don’t root for the underdog or the leader of the pack. I try and go with what I feel is right and correct.
He based his arguments on one shakey premise that I felt to be… well… stupid (for lack of a better term).
I couldn’t disagree with this more. And that’s what I based all following arguments and assertions off of…
He said I came off as “self righteous”, but I dont think this is the word he meant. Smug, yes, perhaps. Flippest, maybe. That’s me, though. grins I’m like that ALL the time. As for ganging up on him, I don’t recall requiring help to squash this idea. If someone jumped in, it was because they were acting alone.
hey buddy. yeah there’s a lot of that 'round these parts. people read a couple articles off the internet, enhance their vocabulary a bit, and suddenly they’re great intellectuals–masters of scientific and philosophical discourse. but they have absolutely NO understanding of the basics, and in turn, of the “big picture”. You can clearly see that in terms their approach to the methodology, to logic, etc.
the word “pedant” was once used on here, by the highly respectable ILP user Logo, to describe this phenomenon. it’s become my own way of just ending pointless discussions with folks who aren’t speaking the “universal language” of logic, science, philosophy or whatever. tag em as a pedant in your mind, then move on. you’ll never win anyway.
there IS a universal language that intellectuals can use amongst each other EVEN WHEN THEY COMPLETELY DISAGREE AND HAVE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORLD-VIEWS. some people just don’t get that… why, i’ll probably never know.
anyway, hope that helps somehow.
pedant - one who pays undue attention to book learning and formal rules.
And, I guess, by saying ALLLL of that, you’re not, yourself, being pedantic?
Judge not less ye be judged, asshole.
These forums are not condusive for the type of hardcore intellectual debates you are speaking of. When you look at the topics being posted (repeatedly…god…repeatedly the same… damn… subject/question/yadda yadda) and the type of arguments that come up (such as the one with Nikol), you see that this forum is not a forum of “peers”, as I’m sure you wish it was. This forum calls for people from all spectrums of life and experience, from the very young and educated, to the very old and uneducated. Your statements are highly suspect as I’m almost certain I can find instances where you, yourself, act in a manner which you are speaking out against in this post.
People are just trying to be. If you don’t like it, either leave them be, retain the high ground and bitch about it, or leave. My preference is the latter.
Well, but he’s right. Not all things can be explained away or alleviated with logic, with science, or with hard measurements. I would say that the human psyche is a prime example of this.
You’re correct. “Self-righteous” doesn’t quite fit.
“Smug” or “flippant” -yeah those are maybe ok. I was thinking more of …oh, arrogant. (Like me. )
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Nahh. But I do have pretty pointed feelings about the field of psychology and the way that America is riddled with phobias, quirks, ticks, and a new disorder for the DSM every year. The way I see it, the question isn’t why hold psychology to a higher standard, the question is can psychology possibly be held to the same standards as other sciences.
No - and I don’t deny that medications in psychiatry are a valid treatment option. They do immeasurable good, but they do not cure anything yet.
Stop taking them and symptoms can recur. In affective disorder (depression), medications can greatly alleviate suffering, and oftentimes the depression will abate and meds can be D/C’d. This does not, however, mean that the meds themselves affected “cure.” You’re throwing about this term far too liberally, IMO.
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So your Mom’s a shrink, eh? Has her own office and stuff? (Or is she part of the merry team?) Is she a psychologist or psychiatrist?
Nahh. We should be able to have a conversation though without you attacking people, right? Calling them jerks and assholes and such.
Well, there’s more evidence to support a deterministic world than an indeterministic one, like you’re claiming. So, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree unless you want to provide proof of things that are known to be out of the reach of conventional science and logic.
I think psychology is and should be held to the same standard as other sciences, such as biology. Don’t you?
Like I said, I used the word cure as a blanket to cover remission. But you’re right, it’s not a “cure”. I’m sorry if I wasn’t anal enough in my response for your tastes.
Both of my parents are. My father had his own office for about 20 years, but now works for the local board of education. My mother worked in my father’s office and has her own practice. She’s currently going after her Master’s as a Psychiatric Nurse Practitioner (she’s also an R.N.), but is an L.C.S.W. for now who has been practicing for … well, longer than I can remember. Why do you ask?
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