Rape Fantasy

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

Ok I am under the belief that having a fantasy about rape is possible because the fantasy realm is outside of reality and anything is possible.
but some will say

I don’t agree with the concept of rape being a fantasy, just fantasizing pretending to be raped, or fantasizing about some of the aspects of rape; therefore it’s the fantasy of role-playing rape.

or

when you’re having a fantasy, you want it to become real.
if you ARE ASKING FOR RAPE, it automatically is not rape anylonger,and is called being dominated

or

You and I have different concepts of the word fantasy. I believe it implies or infers that you’d enjoy the act were it to happen. Not saying that it will happen, or that you’d actively participate in it were you presented the opportunity, the fact that you have it as a fantasy clearly shows that you would enjoy it if you were removed from the sociological restraints of reality. That directly opposes the concept that it’s rape itself, rather than roleplaying the act of rape.

but my argument is that you can fantasize about rape because rape is a fantasy not reality can someone please let me know which side is logical in this discussion? can or can you not fantasize about rape

2

There was a thread @ another forum, some people wrote about rape-fantasy as a concept. Same points you pointed out here, about concent and non-concent.

Can you fantasize about killing someone?

3

do you have the link?

4

I can’t seem to find it…

I’ll surmise:

Some people call a non-rape “rape”; That has to do with super-aggressive sex.

“Rape fantasy” is basically all about – overpowering moral & mental bountries, through force, in order to have sexual release @ the desired target. If someone fantasizes about being raped, ofcourse they fantasize about it out of curiosity, in a situation where they are obsolved of all responsability, as the victim, yet able to experience something forbidden. Or, at the other end, it may be fantasy about doing something forbidden, etc. Some people are sadistic, and ofcourse those would find rapes to be “thrilling”. Many rapes happen during wars, but killing is also enjoyed by some people, in wars, also. It’s the same old sadism.

So:
Curiousity outside of a moral boundry
And Sadism.

Those are the two main concepts behind it.

5

so fantasizing about rape is sadism? so you can fantasize about wanting to be raped? is it still rape then? or just sadism

6

does having a fantasy mean you want to carry it out to some degree in real life?

7

I’m saying it is mainly or usually an exploration or curiosity.

Example:

Have you ever wondered what it’s like to die?

So then there may be a fantasy about death, too.

Not always sadism.

Raping and being raped sorts of fantasies are the difference between the sadism and the curiosity.

These are generalizations.
I’m not a damn psychologists so I wont say mental-emotional states have singular classes of cause.

8

I just think fantasies, like video games perhaps, are just ways of experiencing things without having to worry about the consequences both for yourself and your victim.

9

I have a fantasy about being shot in the head then mutilated while doing it and having just enough consciousness left to know what’s happening yet not be able to do anything about it as I die slowly.
That doesn’t mean I really want that to happen in real life.

10

Surfer22, are you sexually active…?

11

lol, straight to the point

12

You might want to read the book ‘1982, Janine’ by Alasdair Gray. Confronts all the issues of Rape Fantasy, Domination, Control, Exploitation, as well as, accessing Masculinity and Femininity.

Great book, innovative way with narrative as well, written as a series of Imaginary Fantasies, interspersed with accounts of the characters childhood, personal and intimate relationships, employement and mental health.

This may give you some insight into Rape Fantasies and help you understand why certain people have such fantasies and what might make such fantasies inticing (primarily Power and Impotence, with varying degrees of inferiority complex).

Seek it out!

13

Your Avatar is nasty! But I can’t stop watching it. For some reason, every time the baby makes it out ok and the mom explodes! :laughing:

14

I think the ethics behind rape is just as any non-mutual circumstance. Even imprisonment has a mutual circumstance, because the courts justify the prisoner’s choices (in addition to political situation) as the greatest deciding factor. The loss of ethics ensues when it’s forced by any other and someone lacks a choice in the matter.

It’s not rape if it’s mutual. No matter how someone and their partner want to play out a rape fantasy, or fantasize it to themselves, it’s not rape so long as it was mutual.

You might add the argument that the yearning or the simulation of unethical things can lead to unethical action. But I’d expect a line of reason to show that this fantasy doesn’t remain contained. It is true that a lot of rapists begin as peeping toms or pornography addicts. They “wouldn’t have to commit these acts” if they just had the right girlfriend or could legally get the right hooker. So to prevent this we also attack pornography. Some would remove it entirely to say that even unsanctified sex is wrong.

I think that our current system of western justice on this issue is quite fair. There are a great deal of things you can practice in privacy, but bear in mind that crimes associating with you can increase suspicion, using your private practices as evidence.

I wouldn’t confuse the issue with child pornography or “snuff” possession or trafficking, because those people are exploiting a crime that’s already been committed rather than simply perverting their psychosis toward acting those crimes out.

To confuse matters more, there are videos being made to simulate rape or sex crimes or whatever unethical things, and lack of enforcement to stop the information from getting into irresponsable hands.

Overall, given the modern situation, I would say that you can simulate whatever you can afford. Your only responsability is to utilize the services available to you to prevent them from becoming a psychosis. We can all sympathize with someone coming to a therapist saying “I’m afraid because I’m obsessed with rape.” We feel rather cold toward the person saying “it’s the state’s responsability, not mine, to ensure that I don’t commit these unethical things.”

Not important, but also: I don’t think the original poster’s sexual activity is any of our business in a serious forum. Maybe it’s a welcome question in “Mundane babble.” I might lack the sense of humour.

15

off the cuff, i think it’s completely possible to fantasize rape, or even to be raped and enjoy it (less likely), but to be ‘logical’… one wouldn’t fantasize rape that they’re not enjoying within the fantasy, unless they can enjoy not enjoying things, which is unlikely if it’s even admitted as a logical possibility. so therefore if one is fantasizing rape, they’re enjoying it within the fantasy realm, so the question would therefore depend on whether one can technically be raped if they’re (secretly) willing. if you define and simplify rape as sex against one’s will, then no. but i don’t think it’s that sample. for one thing, the rapist still forced sex on the person, did not bother to acquire consent (or find out if consent is there), so at least on his side, he’s committing rape. as for the other side, the rapee may have a split will on the matter. they may fight back, and they may enjoy the aspect of it being against their will per se, making them not responsible for it (and overpowered and other qualities they like), while on another level they are enjoying it. AND obviously rape fantasies exist–people fantasize things that they would use the word ‘rape’ to describe, so saying it’s impossible would be at best a technicality that impedes people’s abilities to say what they mean.

16

Fair after the fact, perhaps, but our current system is not wise in forethought and the preventative aspect.

Case in point: Surfer22 comes here looking for clarification of this issue, and, yes, some good, deep philo discussion is born. But the question isn’t really answered, and the behavior is not addressed. It may only be a point to debate, but Surfer22 may also have a serious issue requiring counseling. The rub is that you can’t really talk to a therapist about this subject, becuase a therapist is required to report patients who may be a danger to themselves or others. And so the fanatsy goes on, more vividly, more detailed, without opposing input, until, finally, the girl turning down a dark alley in the fantasy looks very much like the one doing it in reality …

In short, there should be some outreach to potential rapists before hand, like billboards saying, “Troubled By Dark Fantasies? 1-800 XXXX Free, Confidential, Anonymous Ongoing Counseling.” It would be a hard thing to get any political support for such a thing, though. Our view of rapists is that they crawled out of a sewer the night of the attack. Not true – they’re sons, brothers, fathers, friends and coworkers.

A world of hurt and expensse could be prevented if we could intervene in these unchallenged fantasies beforehand. If I was to offer therapy on this, I think I would take the potential rapists own fantasy, and read it back as a visualization, and just when he’s hot and bothered and near fantasy penetration of the victim, say, “and just then, a police cruiser pulls into the alley. You’re caught, convicted, and serve 12 long years in prison.” THAT’S what I mean by “disrupting the fantasy.” That way the brain isn’t getting endlesslessly programmed that the outcome is always going to be glorius orgasmic release.

17

:smiley:

18

Paleoliberal-

Glad to hear what you had to say.

Because it’s philosophy, I post mainly in third person. But there’s usually a message that can easily be translated to second person. If someone reading or posting on the thread may have a serious problem related to this, then my second person message is more like. “If you’re not seeking help for this then you’re perverse, morally weak, and are obligated to get help immediately.”

Although I agree with the reasoning of western justice on the issue, I don’t agree with the lack of severity. What you call 12 years as a penalty is really more like 1 year in common practice. I’m quite in the opposite of the spectrum. If you agree with capital punishment, I would go so far as to stipulate that in certain cases it should include sexual misconduct.

As for the problem of therapist confidentiality- I am impressed that my doubts were corrected.

It may be different in certain states- but in Alberta Canada, you walk in the therapist’s room, and the therapist is legally obliged to keep everything confidential with some specific exceptions. AND they’re legally obliged to tell you those exceptions before discussion. They are: (1) You must provide them with written express permission, OR (2) You express a desire to take specific targets with an immediate specific agenda.

In plain english, that means you can walk in and say: “I want to kill everyone. I want it bad.” The therapist is legally obliged to keep that phrase strictly between you and themself. But if you say: “I have a loaded gun in my car and I’m going to shoot Johnny in the back with it at 8pm tonight,” you can be almost guaranteed that the police are going to want a polite chat with you.

The methods that therapists use is a matter of, not unlike philosophy, seeking the subject’s opinion and balancing extremes. “What consequences do you believe this will have? What will it accomplish?”

As for the matter of empathy. Eg: “They didn’t crawl out of the sewer,” I agree. Therapists are spurred to empathize, but not to sympathize. Yes, the subject’s traits are common to all of us, but they also belong to them as property. I not only believe things, but I also own those beliefs. All my choices carry an exchange of consequence. Our job, according to common practice, is to help make those consequences fair. Not necessarily to make them easy.