Re: BUDDISIM, A DEBUNKED RELIGION

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
1

Re: BUDDISIM, A DEBUNKED RELIGION

Hello

I am a Muslim and I want to talk about Buddhisim vs. Islam. I found your
address from a Buddhist Group, Site.

Dear computer user Buddhists !!!

You use computers programs and networks built by programmers or System
Admisintrators. But do never forget these important points;

This Universe is a dazzling (marvelous) computer. It has a Great Programmer
who has created all things and the earth in the Universe and for the earth
He has built the sun as a “ power source “ and the moon as a “ system clock
“.

This power source has never been shutdown, and this system clock has never
been corrupted. Therefore this demonstrates the Science and the Art of the
Programmer.

This One is also a so exalted programmer who has written a life program for
our earth and it has been running for more than 100 thousands of years
without any " error " and " crash “ If you want to realize how a Great
Programmer “ He is first look at yourself. He located your all data in a
tinny cell that cannot be seen by your naked eye, and He is executing the
program in it.

Since DNA is an obvious 3D program, and any program cannot be written out of
a programmer, the computer programs that you use are also product of skills,
but if they are compared with the Glorious One’s (Universal Program), yours
like a mirror reflection.

Moreover as He makes your cells talk and communate with eachother on
trillions protocols in the network, He has given you all your needs so He
makes you talk with other people, makes you smile and listen.

He has prepared light and voice in order that you can be aware of everthing
around your environment, but you cannot add any new device without His
Permission. For this reason there is a so Great One, The Network Expert who
knows your all needs and gives the hard wares that you need. What you can
do as a network administrator (or an end user), is very tinny, if it is
compared with the Science (Wisdom) of the Network Administrator of the
Universe. Yet it is a great favour for you. He has created natural beauties,
greeen plants colorfull flowers, delicious fruits (and all kinds of food)
for your amusing. What is more He has endowed extra senses that have not
been used in your computer systems yet. Tasting, touching and smelling. In
the green leaves, there are perhaps quadrillion x quadrillions of micro
chemical factories that decompose lifegiving oxygen from karbondioxside (and
monoxide).

He has created you from a single cell, zygot (two halphoid cells), shaped
your body giving your balance etc. that has not been reached by any robotic
technology yet.

(In fact this match is not sufficent. Even the computers having the most
developed technology are extremly shallow when they are compared with the
electrochemistry in the human brain and nerve system (cells). What is more
the universe, solar systems are much greater and indeed much far from this
comparing)

This One is the Owner and the Absolute King of the whole Universe from the
earth to the heaven, from the atoms to the stars, from the begining to the
end.

It is completely invalid to say " I do not obey the Master, Programmer of
the Universe, I only obey Buddha Statues and Buddhisim words the way it is
baloney to have a Buddha statue picture in your computer by saying “ I do
not obey any programmer, but I only thurst in this Buddha Picture “.

Because the Creation of the Lord is an Open Truth.

However according to Buddhisim many questions regarding the universe,
existence, and life cannot be replied.

Since it has no longer enough for any explanation of that power to consider
only the existance of the universe, as Buddhism did not even mention ages
ago (and as popularizers of Buddha continue to do today). Each of the steps
and structures that Buddhists have said (for the universe and the life) were
so simple actually involves staggeringly complicated biochemical processes
(of the living beings) that can not be papered over with rhetoric.

Regarding Buddisim. I have never wanted to insult to your religion. I see
that you Buddists have Buddha Statues to pray or etc.

But we see the universe by examining. Our earth can never be compared with
any Buddha statue (on account of size, volume). Yet our earth is very small
if it is compared with the Sun. The immense Sun is very tiny when it is
compared with our Galaxy. Our Galaxy is very small (like a dust), if it is
compared with giant Galactic systems.

Since this is the fact, since we live in the Universe whose size is so
immense and cannot be imaged, and since in it there are Supernovaes,
Novaes, Black Holes, Quasars, Nebulas, Red Supergiants, then surely the
budda statues and buddhisim are NOTHING when they are compared with that
beings in the universe.

According to Muslim faith we believe in the existence of the One, Unique,
Incomparable, Merciful God (Allah) – the Sole Creator. He creates and
sustains all things in the Universe. He is our Cosmic Designer (The Creator
of the Universe) and He capable of creating the dazzling array of living
things, Universe is great beyond all imagining. He is Higher than all
things. As it is stressed in the Qur’an (Muslim Holly Book Sent By Allah to
Prophet Muhammed (SAS) : HE IS THE CREATOR OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH.
(SURAH ASH-SURA: 11)

You believe in the existance of the Paradise (after death). But one cannot
be in the Paradise,unless that one yields to our Cosmic Designer. According
to Islam there is no re-incernation. People are sent to the World at once.
And they are given enough time to choose the true path. After they die, they
are re-created and Judged. (On the Day of Judgement).

According to your belief. You can say " we will be in the Paradise according
to our deeds, but Buddhisim says there is no Creator ". Then who can send
you to the Paradise? Who will judge you? Who will decide whether your dees
are good or bad? Your reply is “ that is the Cycle of the life”. According
to you all events in the Universe, birth, death,(the life) other beings are
due to the Cycle and it is not created, it is all natural. In fact it can’t
be true. Why?

Because:

We can examine the cycle of a circle (wheel) We know the circles (wheels)
are designed on the computers by the engineers, Let us take an example a
Jeep wheel. ( Land Rover-4x4) whose diameter is about 80cm. Its tire and
rim are programmed on the computers, by the engineers due to very
significant balance, calculation and measure. Tire tracks are designed
according the road and weather conditions e.g ice, snow, desert, rain etc.
(Goodyear, Continential) , the rim is similar, suitable metal alloy is
programed and produced. This demonstrates and shows an intelligent engineer,
programmer (designer).

Then in the universal cycle there are billions of galaxies revolving in
their centre. In only our galaxy there are about 200 billion stars revolving
very fast and having so great sizes with their termonuclear operations
internaly (such as the sun is about 1.300.000 times greater than the earth,
it is an average yellowish star with a temperature 5500 C. Massive hot stars
are blue-white and glow at 10.000 C. Such stars rapidly consume themselves
as their hydrogen converts to helium like a termonuclear reactor) by
traveling in their orbits according to perfect order (protoplanetary disk
and accretion disk of embrionic solar systems in which new planets are
born), giant nebulas, novaes etc.

Considering the earth it is propelled in the space among formidible
conditions for instance very hot stars, stellar wind, cosmic radiatoin,
meteors, frozen cold zones of the space, In spite of all these
difficulities, there are thousands of species plants and animals living
because of perfectly designed physical and biochemical cycles (cycle of
seasons, carbon cycle, nitrogen cycle, our athmosphere layer, Van Allen
magnetic shield of the earth that protects us from Electron winds), much
perfect, greater and larger than the Cycle of Jeep’s wheel of course. So
this shows the Engineer and Designer of the Earth and the Universe, the all
Wise and the Most High. It introduces Him even to the blind eyes, according
to science that we study.

Friend, pls don’t be cheated! All beautiful things that you see in this
worldlifeprogram are only “ limited trial “ versions. As you see you can
never save your wealthy and joyfull times. Then know the One who has written
this Cosmic Program. Besides is it Possible for the Programmer , to write
such a beautiful program, and not to show us " about " to introduce Himself?

You are judged by your boss, your teachers because of jobs, home works,
examinations. Your boss pays your money, and wants business, your teacher
teaches you lessons and wants success and information. Is it possible for
the One who has endowed you tirillions of nerve (network) protocols and
computerized ambiance (life) etc. not to judge you on the Great Court?

When the time comes, the earth and the universe will be destroyed. People
will be re-created and judged. Regarding the Judgement Day, cannot you see
Allah, Our Cosmic Designer, sends the rain and revives the death soil, by
changing it into verdant land? Similar to this surely He will re-create
(revive) all people on the Great Court. Then He will send to the Paradise or
the Hell. Cannot the One who has Created the earth and the universe, (the
golden shornes, sand, green palm forests, vineyards, blue sea ,sky and other
beauties of the earth as examples of the paradise and in the the stars at
10.000 C. consuming themselves as their hydrogen converts to helium to a
cosmic destruction, example of the Hell) Create a similar one (the Real
Paradise and the Hell), Surely He can, He is able to do all things.

Beware! All things that you are doing are saved as log files without being
removed and skipped. These log files will be opened and checked by the
System Admin, the Most High.

Therefore see His Mercy so that you can approach that One, the Great King of
Eternity. You can earn His sake and be the friend of Him due to this mercy.

Then see and learn all " about " created by this Programmer who is the
Great Network Administrator of this Universe and try to earn the full
version (life in the Paradise and Love of that Programmer,The Creator).

In Addition, as according to Buddhisim wanting help to the Lord is regarded
as dangerous. The main teaching is " You must only trust in yourself "
Buddhist Monks (Lamas) teach so.

But this is completely incorrect and dangerous and it accomplishes nothing.

So to any monk (Buddhist teacher) we Muslims can say:

My Lord, Allah causes the sun to rise from the East and causes it to come
from the West!

(As a challenge to the monk) Now cause the sun to rise from the West. If you
really trust in yourself you succeed in this!

Furthermore being in good thing for Buddhists accomplihes nothing. Because
unless one yields to the Creator of the Universe, God, that one is already
in the worst thing.

In Islam the Creator, already orders to do good thing.

An Important Note: All things that we have written here are about current
Buddhisim not to personalitiy of Buddha’s himself. Because according to
Islam too many messenger(prophets) were sent by the Lord. So Buddha could be
a messenger of Allah then his religion has been changed. (This is an Islamic
Speculation).

En etkili ve güvenilir PC Korumayi tercih edin, rahat edin!
msn.com.tr/security/

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

V:

Hi and thanks for your letter.

You make some good points, but I suggest you ask the atheists since they are into science much more than myself if you like scientific debate. I am very busy, so am sorry I cannot write much in reply. But I will say if you believe that Allah is the same as the God if the OT, then I discuses it below where I debunk religion via ‘inner peace’ logic and not by scientific logic.

see:

jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/ … opic=318.0

I hope you take this outline I have given you in that post and apply it to Islam. Then see how it turns out? I know very little about Islam, so I can’t do it. Maybe you can profit by this analysis, but it requires you to step outside of the box for a moment to view it as an impartial observer.

And as far as Buddhism? No need to debunk it. I suggest you add it to your current Muslim practice and then you can ‘turbo charge’ it. I draw from many spiritual traditions myself, so am not one or the other and exclude all the rest.

For instance, the Muslims pray at sun up, when the sun is at its zenith at noon, when the sun is part way down in the afternoon, when the sun sets and when they go to bed. Even though I am not a Muslim, I borrowed from the Muslim’s prayer schedule to use as a reminder to be mindful of “gratitude” in my life. If you do not want to develop a practice of gratitude, then what about using it as a reminder 5 times a day to relax your breath, practice mindfulness and bring your thoughts back to the present moment?

I do not beat down Islam I profit from it. You can use this same tool as a freethinker and profit from Buddhism. When you have come to a point of gratitude for being able to open your eyes in the morning and being able to take a breath of air everything else is just gravy so to speak. Gratitude plays an important part with finding inner peace, just as being mindful of the present moment and being aware of anything that causes this mindfulness to wander.

My main focus of my Buddhist practice is concentrated on the 3 pillars of Buddhism that are common to all schools of Buddhist practice: I’ve settled on the essence of Buddhism and that is what I work on and find much peace with this type of simplified practice.

3 Pillars of Buddhism

1- Practicing mindfulness and meditation to develop peace and self awareness of our own true nature.

2- Accepting the liberating wisdom of impermanence and practicing non-clinging and a lessening of craving and desires.

3- The development of compassion for others.

Buddhists are not required to believe or not believe in God, so anyone can make use of this philosophy irrespective of their religious beliefs or lack thereof. In addition to the 3 pillars, we can use the eightfold path to guide us. Within the 3 pillars and the eightfold path are a lifetime of practice. No need to get lost in endless debate and spend you precious time in idle talk that only serves to massage one ego. Plenty of work to do right here, right now, unless we prefer to keep our minds distracted through our perpetual complexities we are so addicted to. We do need to give some thought of the ‘right’ way to live as the eightfold path tells us, so we should never try and be devoid of thought in our lives, but instead look for a balance and let thought serve us for once.

The Eightfold Path

  1. Right View
  2. Right Intention
  3. Right Speech
  4. Right Action
  5. Right Livelihood
  6. Right Effort
  7. Right Mindfulness
  8. Right Concentration

How can you differentiate right from wrong? By peace. You learn what destroys your peace and the peace of others as well as what promotes you inner peace and the inner peace of others. Do you need a teacher for that? Or the Pope to tell you? Or just listen to peace as the best teacher?

The 5 precepts are the ‘commandments’ more or less for Buddhists. Although you are not commanded to do a thing. If you wish to live at peace, then proceed the best you can - but it is your choice.

The Five Precepts

  1. Refrain from Killing:
  2. Refrain from Stealing:
  3. Refrain from Sexual Misconduct:
  4. Refrain from False Speech:
  5. Refrain from the Use of Intoxicants:

I came to Buddhism slowly through my studies about 1999. My earliest exposure was from Thich Nhat Hanh, Allen Watts and the Dalai Lama. I practice for inner peace, but also it might be termed enlightenment. Buddhism provides this tool, which is just one out of the many tools I use for peace development. For once we have found a contentment within and with all and are at peace - we are progressing on the road to enlightenment. You can also tell when you have “arrived” by your practice telling you so. Does your practice revolve around actually practicing what you have learned to generate peace within or are you on a never ending journey of always looking and never finding?

Once I am at peace, I can share with others about finding peace for themselves, which is the secondary reason I practice. I have no interest in practicing Buddhism for extinguishing reincarnation. These “fear based” reasons for being a Buddhist are not authentic or natural - the persons actions are based on fear or negative consequences otherwise they would not do them. My actions are based on inner peace and if I stray - there goes my peace - it is my choice. I enjoy life and realize that due to natural law, suffering comes about as part of the process. The Taoists have a saying for this, “fleas come with the dog.” So, I accept there are growth pains as a fair trade off for the privilege of living and I would enjoy any reincarnation if given the chance. Buddhism helps makes this trade off of life and pain more in my favor by lending me support to live a life at peace. I do not practice Buddhism to earn merit for the next life - I practice Buddhism for my own peace generation in THIS LIFE.

I’d like to point out that my views are not the orthodox or traditional vies on these subjects. The orthodox view of Buddhist beliefs can be summed up in a meditation on the three liberation’s. By meditating on emptiness, formlessness and passionlessness, this will allow you, with a few lifetimes of diligent practice, to recognize the three liberation’s of the ego and the dharma as being empty, the dharma as formless and this eventually the recognition of living is an unworthy desire as our existence is characterized by suffering. So, please do not think I speak for anyone other than ‘myself’ with whatever I write. Of course, traditional Buddhists also believe there is no ‘my’ or ‘self’ so, I guess it really doesn’t matter in that case.

When you wrote “This is an Islamic Speculation” It is only fair to say that religion is based for the most part on speculation if it requires faith.

See

jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/ … opic=133.0

I suggest you become a ‘practical philosopher’ and ‘freethinker’ so you may think for yourself and adopt what does work.

See:

jesusneverexisted.org/jne/forum/ … ?topic=4.0

Good Luck,

V (Male)

Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher

2

When people attempt to strike down another religion to me it is tantamount to this mature statement: My dad can beat up your dad.

The person who wrote the first part simply made sweeping overgeneralizations about Buddhism. He knows about one sect and not even that sect that well. I mean honestly he didn’t even spell it right >< Also, to really understand Buddhism one must understand Hinduism as it is of the same relation as Judaism is to Christianty and Christianity is to Islaim.

I just see the individuals effort to try to convert by using a metaphor which is a poor argument to me. And I would say it would be foolish for the Buddhist to attempt to convert the Islamic follower in the same way.

3

Muslims. Always good for a laugh.

4

Satori

There’ve been plenty of threads attempting to strike down Christianity in which comments like this were conspicuously absent. Other faiths are entitled to criticism, too.

5

There is a fine line between criticism and just pure and simple bias. I rarely troll any forums now as I am aware how asinine it is to proclaim any is better than another. We all have our Way’s. Perhaps you are saying I do not come to Christianity’s defense. Believe this when I say there are enough fighters for their positions :slight_smile:

6

I knew it had to be something like that, because it wouldn’t be open-minded at all to apply the “Criticisng other peoples religions is foolish” principal to religions you like, and not apply it at all to religions you don’t. Also, I don’t see anything particularly different in this criticism, compared to threads that criticise other faiths. You don’t seem to be providing a point by point rebuttal, so much as saying that the author doesn’t have the right to be making his attack, along with some speculation about the degree of understanding the author has of the subject matter. So, just to be clear, do you think the thread about the historical Jesus nearby is an example of ‘my Dad can beat up your Dad’ type thinking?

7

I agree. We should be free to criticize them all. People are so quick to jump on western religion, but attacking eastern religion seems to be unfashionable on this site. I think it should be open season on all religion for philosophers! :evilfun:

I hope vfr has some sort of response on this thread. I haven’t come across that many thinking/open minded Muslims. (Devout or practicing Muslims I mean)

8

Because most people here are in the West, and their attacks are primarily made for personal reasons, not for the candy-coated outside-of-themselves purpose of “promoting the use of reason in thinking about the world”.

(Everyone uses reason once they have made an emotional decision on what to attack.)

9

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

10

Yup :slight_smile:

11

Hey matthatter:

I agree with what you said, but I’m wondering if that’s an unfortunate condition, or an inevitability (or both?) Can a person possibly care enough about philosophy to become good at it, without having made a pre-rational emotional decision to defend some things, and attack others?

12

If it maintained a strictly historical sense it would not. But we all know it has been askewed to the position of Christianity is void and null because we don’t know this guy or if he was real.

If you deem me so vapid and transparent than I am probably wasting my time. But in reality I commen on things that I know. I know about Eastern religions FAR more than I know about those of the West. So in reality I leave defending to those who actually know what they are talking about.

If this is what you crave give me some time and I will show you how the post pigeon holes Buddhism.

13

Only if they grow up in an environment in which philosophy is the norm (as the norm in most places is a lack of philosophy; an individual usually accepts the ideas of a dominant culture).

For someone to undertake philosophy, they first have to experience the cognitive dissonance of feeling the need accept (and so act accordingly) premises (that lead to a certain way of living according to the ideals of a particular culture) in which they perceive errors.

The discomfort of cognitive dissonance is the most human of all the negative emotions; a human is cursed with the (although perhaps illusionary) free-will to decide how to act, and so he either engages in behavior he knows may be unethical (in a sense, choosing to act, in his OWN definition, “wrongly”) or he remains completely idle (an impossibility if he wants to continue living).

If one is so mindful of the ways in which his behavior may be unethical, he will experience cognitive dissonance almost constantly (at least in social situations).

This will drive him to philosophical thought, as he tries to help himself find beliefs so strong that he can live a calm life, in which he knows he’s doing the right thing (young athiests are doing this by first attempting to convince themselves that refusing their old religion IS the right thing!)

Most philosophers begin by either attacking what they “know” is wrong, which was a root of their early cognitive dissonance, or by defending what they “know” is right, what has provided them comfort in their idea of what is wrong. (This also works the other way around: what they know is wrong is that which attacks what they know is right, but after awhile it becomes a circle with an addition of new concepts, gradually changing definitions, and the removal of "outdated: information until it becomes hard to say how it all began; before they know it they realize they are no longer defending what they used to.)

One can only calmly enter philosophy if they are 100% secure in their beliefs (assuming those beliefs, or the person’s premises that lead to that belief, are somehow faulty, the person is simply deciding to practice philosophy for fun, for mental exercise, or because he fancies himself intelligent, but he is obviously clueless about many things, and too arrogant to realize his ignorance) or if they live in some kind of utopian society in which everyone lived free of conflict, and their pasttime was a kind of art in which everyone shared in the communal painting of a metaphysical reality.

In the first case, the person is just indulging himself in exercising ideas he already has (nothing new is coming to fruition… there is no reason to think other than to bask in the process of one’s thought), and in the second there is nothing to lose, because everyone already agrees that their life is perfect, and so their dicussions contain nothing of personal importance.

14

:cry: :cry: :cry:

Cancer, in the format of an ideology.

Watch it spread and harm.

15

All beliefs should be good for a laugh or they aren’t good beliefs at all.

16

Nazism: Ho ho ho, merry Christmas.

17

Buddhism has errorful truths like all religions, just a lot less of them.

18

Support that argument using examples. I’d say its as error prone as any. We can speak of ‘complimentary’ errors, those which negatively effect us more or less as compared to other religions . . . but errors?

Buddhism has a tone of those.

19

Buddhism certainly does not say that there is no God up in the sky. But what it says is that even the God(s) are privy to the same rules of samsara (reincarnation) as the mortals. And they still cling to the principles of the overlaying reality all the while not embracing the underlying.

Since this has never been proven I don’t feel as if this is an absolute. But Buddhism believes that the Veil of Maya as the Hindi’s call it has been near eternal.

I do not agree with this statement as we cannot know this for certain. In some Buddhist sects, the physical is something to waste the minds time.

Some may easily replace He, with the Dao. The individual who wrote this has an intrinsic fascination with the aspects of Science. While I cannot say he is wrong but in his opposition to Buddhism he is embracing all that a Buddhist can embrace as well.

“If you see a Buddha walking along the road; slay him”. This is a common parable from Buddhism. Buddhists can believe in a God or God’s which is why it thrived for a long time in India along with the Hindu people. The revery to Buddha images depends solely on which sect you are speaking of much like how Roman Catholics essentially worship the Virgin Mary. A proper Buddhist trusts not even Buddha himself because that is an attempt to grip the world which they are supposed to escape.

When there is no more mystery what then is there? This is the stance a Buddhist would take. The world we live in is but an illusion.

All that one sees as advance is trivial to another. Humans have existed for roughly 60, 000 years without the total understanding of the world. Hinduism and Buddhism are amazingly simliar. Scholars from both worlds and even those of the Grecians understood the Atomic theory. In a way everything is linked which we now know as atoms and molecules. This is the understanding the East has had for an extremely long time. We may use scientific rhetoric to explain it to a much greater extent but the general views have been there for quite some time.

Here is where I say that he pigeon holed Buddhism. He believes all Buddhist pray to statues and are silly believing that everything lies in a statue.

Here is another flaw in his understanding. Buddhists do not believe in a paradise. Rather they believe in Nirvana, Shunyata or The Void. This is not Paradise but rather that of a release of the cycle of rebirth. The Hell we live in is that which makes us repeat our lives suffering over and over again. Hindi thinkers believe that one who worships God may still attain Moksha but they are spending too much time on the God. And not enough on the individual which needs to be released.

Here he proclaims something wrong simply because he doesn’t understand it. Also, Paradise is a thought not useful in Buddhism.

Here is a total switch up from his earlier stance. They turned from Statue lovers to Egoists.

I love when people speak for everyone in their belief system…but anyways the Buddhist teacher would reply with most likely a playful tone.

“When one closes their eyes the Sun no longer exists, when one confuses East and West they can still find themselves, and when one struggles against the current they will assuredly only tire themselves.”

Siddartha Gautama came about roughly at 600 BCE. ANd almost all of the original recordings are intact. They were written mostly in Hindi, Sanskrit and Pali then translated into Chinese, Japanese, and Korean. Not much of Buddhism has “changed” because it tells of how it is a fluid thing. The early teachings explain this and allow for much interpretation

And just as VFR said you can incorporate Buddhism with any facet of life or belief with little or not friction. VFR said it beautifully I will just add again.

20

What I want to know is if anyone has ever made the connection that this kind of divisivness causes war, hate and suffering? The original poster had all the right to make his statement. BUT, most of his statements were full of ignorance and disrespect for his beliefs based on sweeping generalizations. I am appalled at the flipancy you presented in your argument. This seems like religious-darwinism.