Religion: Esoteric and Secular

Hello All

I would appreciate honest responses here from anyone since I want to learn if you distinguish between the secular and esoteric as I do or find it irrelevant without arguing or insult. Recent events have made me concerned with this. There would be no reason for me to initiate any topics of interest to me if this distinction isn’t at least politely respected even if found wanting by some of you.

Religion, and in this case Christianity, as I understand it, came into existence because of man’s possibility for re-birth. Re-birth is an inner experience or transformation, an actual change or development of human being itself much like an acorn transforming into an oak.

This requires not only great effort on the part of the pre-Christian but also great efforts on the part of the guide. Jesus was the ultimate guide.

The Church itself from the inner or esoteric perspective, is the organization of people desiring to pursue this change in their being. Part of self knowledge rests on the idea that we are one “type” of human being of which there are other types. We are then able to learn from each other. Actually ancient astrology understood human essence types quite well.

But the point is that an organization of people dedicated to the cause of Inner growth had to include the basic human types and their interaction in the presence of the teacher, and in this case Jesus, would allow each to profit from seeing other aspects of themselves though less dominant from being a different type.

But the main objective of this organization is not to do this or that but in maintaining a certain conscious quality within this spiritual organization. This conscious quality would allow, through the help of the Holy Spirit, this inner transformation that the cooperative organization of people seeks to further. The teachers and students are not determined by earthly considerations but by the degrees of acquired consciousness in the cause of re-birth.

Initially then, I believe, that the church was esoteric in that it had the concern for the “inner man” as its prime objective.

However, as is normal, those with less conscious awareness find certain ideas and methods objectionable. Gradually people begin to stray from the purpose of the original teaching and try to “improve” it so that it seems more fair. The esoteric or inner consideration begins to change in favor of earthly or secular considerations.

Instead of the concern being for the “inner man”, the secularization of the church changes the concern into outer “appearances”. The emphasis gradually moves from the inner man into external culture. The emphasis changes from recognizing the value of the process in favor of external cultural “results”.

This distinction and the difficulty of retaining it is pointed out several times in the gospels as in Matthew 22: 21 “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.” and also the very profound description of Jesus anointed at Bethany where Mary poured the precious ointment on Jesus much to the annoyance of some disciples.

This raises the question of how to consciously balance the esoteric with the secular within ones own perception.

Christianity, or religion in general, has no meaning for me without this distinction between the esoteric and the secular, the inner man and the man of “appearances”.

So I’m asking if any of you also differentiate in this manner? Do you distinguish between the organization of people dedicated to the growth of the inner man and the organization of people dedicated to responding to culture?

IMO the esoteric often exists within the secular without its knowledge but privately keeps an eye open for the presence of “black sheep.”

This isn’t an easy post. I see another of the usual secularizing threads in regards Christendom. They are natural. If anyone is familiar with Pythagoras’ Law of Octaves", it becomes obvious why there are no straight lines in nature or that all of the unconscious energy flows turn in circles. This is what sustains the natural machine.

The message of Christ or of Christianity must, by universal principles, begin to degenerate into Christendom. The whole cycle degeneration from the time a conscious teaching enters into the earthly cosmos and when its conscious potency is no more is called an “aeon” or simply an “age”, which at some point leads to the next coming.

On the one hand, talking too much about the depths of Christianity must lead to confusion and does more harm than its worth. On the other, it is also necessary to have a certain amount of information available for those who sense something beyond the secular.

I’m well aware that the depth of esoteric Christianity is beyond me. I consider myself a reasonably deep human being but I have read of those and even met some that I know darn well I do not belong in the same room with.

So, in the spirit of “food for thought” and of the hopeful experience of “feelings” I’d like to post the following article.

For those lurking that have felt in their gut the tension between the secular and the sacred within themselves, parts of this article may be useful. For those that have become followers of the secular, it is of no value and best avoided. Naturally, I cannot or have no right to distinguish in this way so I just put it “out there” so to speak for the purpose of “balance”.

Read at your own risk.

hermes-press.com/Perennial_T … ianity.htm

Thanks for the link it was interesting to read :slight_smile:

Nick_A i’m interested to hear what you think happens after death. It sounds possible to me that we reborn automatically after death as different person. I read somewhere that if the person has entered into Higher Consciousness this process of re-birth comes to an end. And then i don’t know what happens.

Also i’m interested to hear what you think about this interview:
levity.com/alchemy/dubuis_inter.html

I forgot to say that i don’t believe in heaven.

OK i’m might be little offtopic here but here’s something i’ve been resently interested in sefer yetzirah: the book of formation or sepher yetsira: the book of creation

web.wt.net/~cbenton/sefer/sefer.htm
psyche.com/psyche/links/sepher_yetsira.html

Hopefully this is interesting to you Nick_A. I’m quite a newbe on the esoteric matters and currently exited about finding ilovephilosophy and some esoteric writings :slight_smile:

Hello banana

Have you ever heard the expression: “Rat poison is 98% good corn”? This is very true in a great deal of spiritual and esoteric philosophy. There are a lot of truths that can become quite enchanting. The poison is how they can become established within our personal psych. It is true that they can be of great help in the quest for self knowledge, inner growth of being, and the resulting level consciousness. However, they can also strengthen our egotism or the artificial within us that takes the place of the genuine.

Alchemy is like that. It is an ancient practice and IMO contains a great deal of truth. It is one of those ancient sciences that the church doesn’t frown on simply because re-birth is tied to it. From the article:

The question underneath the answer is: What is doing the manipulating? This is the essential question for me. Inner work is a human calling but without proper guidance, a person can do serious harm to their being. Before acquiring anything new, I believe it is essential to start at the beginning free of egotism and getting rid of a lot of false ideas about ourselves. Otherwise the results will be worse than if one never began.

Read the following letter I want to share with you. It is not cutsey pooh. It doesn’t say how wonderful you are, the joys of talking with God, melding into the great beyond, or how we are all one. It is tough love directed at recognition of our inner states. The article speaks of initiation but again, what is initiated and what efforts must we make to find out. These ideas will never be popular IMO simply because they are true and not at all flattering to our egotism. Yet, especially for those like yourself that have had experiences of altered states of consciousness, such an attitude of humility is exactly what can save you from slavery to illusion.

What good is speculating as to what lies beyond the physical death if we don’t know what is the seed of life within us that can live or die. the physical body is dust to dust and our thoughts are fleeting. What survives the physical death can only be related to quality of emotion. If all we experience is either animal or negative emotion, how can we appreciate objective life and death in ourselves? First things first.

Try and appreciate the naked truth in the following.

Most modern teaching builds on our inner lies and defense mechanisms. When we witness the wheat and the chafe within ourselves, then any genuine esoteric practice initiating with a conscious source has the potential for beneficial results. A lot of modern practice that strengthens the inner lies only serves to deny our potential.

I’ve been all my life very shy I’m now 24. I’ve also lived in isolation with out friends for many years. Things have changed a little since going through metanoia. I’m very bad at sosial skills and especially in writing. I’ve had trouble with my studies and I rencently dropped out of vocational school so I’m many years behind in studies and i only have diploma from comprehensive school. Now I’m under medication because of schizophrenia and I have this lack of interest in everything. Now I’ve just decided to drop my medication and try without because I’m not satisfied with my current situation. When I had these religious experiences I had real trouble deciding what exectly I went through and should I read the bible or some esoteric material and do I truly believe in trinity. And now I’m overwhelmed with esoteric stuff. I also don’t know what I should do in my life one thing I thought I was ment to do is participate in this fenfire.org/ open source project which I think is important for humanity. I don’t really have other skills and my programming skills aren’t that good also.

Hi banana

It is really sad that you’ve had to go through all this. On my path there is and expression: “A stick has two ends”. One meaning is that as bad as this situation is now, it can be balanced by some sort of good that will come from it. I sure hope it is true in your case.

Don’t stop the meds on your own. I don’t know what you’re on but in some cases they are very necessary. I’d hate to see you go back to a catatonic state.

However, there are things you can do. I’m a believer in healthy alternative approaches since I’ve seen them have good results.

Try and get off the computer unless necessary. It tends to center a person’s energy into their head and with your problem it is exactly what you don’t need.

Yoga is very good for bringing energy into your body from your head and balancing you out in the process.

The more natural life you can take in, the better. Depression is really the lack of impressions. The natural IMPRESSIONS of life keep DEPRESSION at a minimum so allow yourself to take in nature with all your senses. See, feel, hear, taste, and smell it. Open yourself to these natural impressions. This will also help to center you.

Read sites like this for ideas but stay away from the charlatans:

healthyplace.com/communities … /index.asp

Get involved with groups with people going through what you are. Become aware of the effects of diet and nutrition.

This makes perfect sense. Don’t stop the meds but begin to integrate alternative techniques. People that you meet will also be more understanding as to your experiences with altered states of consciousness.

Just becoming involved with others suffering in similar ways will help your social skills a great deal.

Get yourself balanced first and work with others in the process. Then you can worry about others. Its time to Live.

I do wish you the best.