Reluctant participant in 'unfair and brutal' nature

Philosophy Forums Psychology and Mind
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The more I read about natural selection et al is the more I hate nature and resent these roots.

I know that we can ‘be the change we wish to see in the world’ however it seems so hard and futile when these natural inclinations drive me night and day towards being a savage beast.

My main problem is that of sexual desire. My body tells me to go for the women with the highest replication value. If I don’t follow my urges and instead ‘settle’ then I feel depressed and like I am selling myself short and so would prefer to be alone.

Whenever I see an attractive girl on the street I feel depressed as I want to have sex with all of them and know I can’t, this depresses me.

Likewise the most attractive girls are so hard to get. The only things that attract them are fame and dominance- or just a mass of power in general. This causes and ultimate conflict within me as I hate to ‘fuck over my fellow man’ but it seems to be the only option, trampling on others in order to ‘prove oneself’ so the female will be impressed.

I also really resent that women, attractive ones at least, unattractive ones are lain to the wastes just as men are, have had such a lucky jackpot prize; they won in the gene pool. I am aware that ‘the burden of childbirth’ is more for women so they get to be picky but this doesn’t even out the odds; women have contraceptives and so they can enjoy the life of luxury upon their thrones while men claw for their attention. I suppose a small consolation is that beauty fades extremely quickly for women and so they too are lain to waste at around age 28 as the men seek fresher prey.

These things make me resent life and want to become a heroin addict or something.

Now you may say ‘don’t be so superficial! get a hobby’ or whatever but I find the urge to reproduce or at least the urge to have sex is so strong that it constantly engulfs my thoughts. If I am not actively trying to get a sex partner I feel like I am wasting my time as all life consists of a corrollary is survival and replication right? If I am not trying to get laid it just seems like I am diluting my effects and might as well go straight to the source and try and get laid as much as possible.

I tend to take Schopenhauer’s view that art is the only solace from the Wille and we are just slaves to it but art gives us slight respite from this constant struggle.

I still cannot fathom a way to reconcile these diametrically conflicting urges.

The desire for sex forces me to go where the highest consistency of attractive women are. At these places however is where they have most power and flaunt it by treating men like dirt and laughing at it reselling in their tyranny. It is also a squalor of superficial behaviour as sexual selection plays out par excellence.

I despise such places, my intellectual brain screams out in repulsion, and yet my ‘second brain’ blindly follows the scent.

Suicide often seems like a viable alternative to this constant grind (not that I would ever do it, but it seems like a very rational choice); that or the above mentioned heroin as succour.

Now of course it just looks like I am ‘sexually frustrated’ and ‘venting’ which is true to a degree but this brings me no nearer a solution. I am in no short supply of ‘average’ sex but like I say I just feel depressed that I am not getting the prime replication value stock.

I am aware this sounds awefully superficial and I agree but as I said I am only genuinely expressing my natural urges and don’t see any other viable alternatives without feeling like I am crippling my experience of life.

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This took a quick dive away from natural science towards psychology.

How do you feel directly after sex?

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April’s Fools!!! Ahhh, you got me!

Oh, wait, you were serious? Haha, just kidding. No, seriously, this is a great post. I will respond to it later after I return home. Thanks for posting it.

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Anthem I feel slightly validated that I have satiated a base urge but also dissatisfied because I didn’t do it with a girl I was really attracted to.

The girls I really want are ‘hard to get’ and whereas I’m getting better at my machiavellian manipulation such that they are slightly more interested now but I am still leagues away from laying them. #-o

And I’m not asking for ‘handy tips’ on how to get laid. :smiley:

Moreso, my quandary is how can one reconcile these conflicting drives- I consider myself an intellectual and find it so base and grotesque to wallow in these meat markets and yet still my second brain commands it, as mentioned.

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Welcome to the land of the living. Sexual desire is not just your problem, but everybody’s problem. So what ‘nature’ do you really resent and hate here, except your own throbbing penis? Welcome to the plight of man. Women do not share our problem, our need, our thirst. They operate under a different social and physical prerogative. Women are all about ‘peace’ and cannot truly understand or empathize with the cause(s) of ‘war’. War is about controlling women, controlling wombs, and controlling access. One man, the Alpha Male of a given society, owns a vast majority of the women, under a mental schemata, a “Memeplex” as I have heard the word used before. Now, you were not born an heir to this small circle of men. Therefore, you are depressed/sad/nihilistic etc. or whatever. You are ‘out’ of the circle, an outsider. Women instinctively push and pull men in or out, based on purely innate, inherent compulsions. This is known as a woman’s ‘feelings’. They operate on pure emotion, not reason or rationality. They do this because they cannot control the displays men utilize to attract attention to ourselves, in order to put down our competition (again, psychological or physical warfare).

How old are you? Eventually your body will start to break down, like I have recently learned myself. When this happens, you will find the need in you to “settle down”. Your idealism will become replaced with realism, otherwise, you will not reproduce at all. Is your net worth less than $1 billion? Then, sorry, but you are not going to lay the finest broads on our planet, aristocrats. Instead you will receive mediocre women with mediocre faces, used up several times before you got there, regurgitated meat. That is the hand most men are dealt with in life. If you truly desire to improve your lot, then, as you said, you must take a switchblade into your hand and get ready to start slashing throats. But this opposed the Christian dialectic. If you want to improve your position in life, as a man, then you must become a predator. You must hunt other men and women, like animals, without remorse or regard for their feelings.

Don’t let yourself become weak, depressed. Instead, revel in your carnal lusts. Become happy and thrilled by them. Go to war. Hunt.

Momma always hates a coward.

Yes, this is the ‘true’ nature of women. They claim to want “peace” but what they actually are attracted to are alpha males who injure, emasculate, and harm all other (men) who stand in their way. If you want power, then you obviously must begin to strike down those (men) who get in your way. This is your ‘nature’ that you despise. And you despise it because it is inevitable.

Their ancestors worked hard for their children to become attractive. Their parents cut a lot of throats to make them that way.

On another note, remember that beauty is not just skin-deep. I find, most attractive women, or men, are dumb-as-brick stupid. I mean they really, really are not intelligent people on any significant level whatsoever. I mean, walk-across-the-street-without-looking-both-ways stupid. Stupid-Stupid. This is a sign of degeneration, ugliness. They may be physically attractive, but even this can degenerate across multiple generations and ascendants. Stupid people breed stupid people, a sign of downward mobility. These attractive, but idiotic people, are on their way down-down-down. So keep this in mind when you go headhunting. You want smart AND beautiful, not just beautiful.

Exactly, women are useful only for a short period of time, a narrow window, unless they are the top .1% of beauty. Those at the very tip-top, well, they are beautiful from conception to death. That is aristocratic blood. Men, on the other hand, we do not need to focus on our physical appearances, unless you are feminized. We focus, well we used to, on–making money, muscles, and showing off in courting displays. Philosophy is one of these many different displays. Intelligence is also a way of showing off. Use what you are blessed with.

Nobody said life was going to be easy, did they? I must’ve missed that memo.

Me too, and, do not listen to anybody who says, “it lessens with old age” because these scumbags are disgusting liars. It does not getter better with old age. In fact, it gets worse. Because the same urge still persists meanwhile your body slowly breaks down over a long period of time.

Yes, everything only is about sex, and do not allow anybody to argue to you otherwise. They are despicable liars.

There are two fundamental tactics when attempting to get laid, going after the top women, the best, the most beautiful, or, focus on numbers. Different men pick different avenues for success. Most people play the numbers game, having frivolous sex with lots of people, pregnancies without parents, abortions, etc. It is just whatever floats your boat there.

He was right. But art is just a distraction. Although, if you are good at it, then that also can get you laid too.

Find a route inside the circle. Or, carve a path out. You really have no choice in this matter, do you?

Intellectuals have a different strategy in these mating circles. You stay along the wall, the outside, carefully scanning the crowd like a hawk. You stay put, patient, and discriminate which prey is the easiest for the picking, which female is drunkest, most attractive, and has the least amount of males around her. Then you move in for the kill.

If you kill yourself, then less competition for me. You know what choice I would pick, right, LOL!

The solution is clear, as you have stated it yourself, FUCKING.

Truth speaks to those who listen, Agape. I have been down your road before.

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Yup your post mostly just nodded to all my assertions :slight_smile:.

I made a post a long time ago about whether all art is escapism, and if so is it so bad if it is? so long as it provides solace from the brutality of life.

Likewise religion seen as art seems no different.

I was thinking recently if meditation is a good way to ‘transcend one’s nature’. I have vacillated between being interested in it and shunning it for being pitiful escapism from the truth but it has entered my thoughts again.

The problem I have with religion in general is how they make arbitrary stories etc. in a weak attempt to bury their head in the sand. Buddhism at first I thought was better and more rational and, prima facie it is, but upon closer inspection most schools seemed steeped in the supernatural. Zen seems to be the closest thing to a more rational attempt at enlightenment doing away with the pretence but even these guys still adhere to reincarnation and much ‘woo woo’ talk of the clear light of consciousness etc.

See just from a practical perspective I see benefit in meditation- when I have meditated myself it has allowed me ‘space’ between my carnal desires and whether I act on them. I felt less controlled by them. If a girl snubs me for instance, where I would usually try my best to hide my welling anger, when I have meditated I feel like there is almost more of a gap where I am more conscious of my reactions and less reactive and engulfed by immediate emotions. I usually stop after a couple of weeks of meditation as I became bored/angered by the supernatural doctrines which tainted my personal meditation practice; actually I was probs just lazy and undisciplined that being the main reason I didn’t continue.

So rather than hiding behind the usual veil of dogma offered by ‘religion’ wouldn’t meditation alone, without any recourse to the supernatural be a viable endeavour to undertake for said benefits? This is the closest thing I see to ‘transcending one’s humanity’. That is a bit of a misnomer however as rationality is also and indeed the main part of humanity so rather transcending man’s baser heritage.

What I’d be interesting in reading are some scholarly studies into the benefits of meditation- if anyone has any book rec’s for that I’d be interested to hear them.

I do not mind entering the fray and appeasing these desires however getting too engulfed in it without respite (i.e losing the game of life, when I win I feel fine and my existential angst is ‘magically dissolved’ but failure is the main result so far with only hints of progress) is usually what sends me under. Taking drugs have offered a short term release however they usually make me feel worse long term as nature will not allow me to get off scott free. There is a penalty for stealing pleasure in this way.

You explained the societal, hierarchical reasons for existential malaise very well, and pretty much just how I think of them. Since learning about wolf pack mating behaviours I suddenly realized that human society is no different. In wolf packs there is one alpha male and a number of beta males. The alpha male is the only one who gets to impregnate all the females of the pack while the betas only watch on and protect the females. Even this for the betas is still a fair trade apparently as it offers them better survival chances being in a pack rather than being a LONE WOLF. Upon discovering this the societal parallels immediately made themselves apparent to me. There are those few aristocrats, celebs, Donald Trumps etc. (alphas) who the women with the highest social/replication value are attracted to at the top. The majority of the male population however lays in stark contrast- they are on the lower end of the continuum from still alpha but not celeb down to nerdy/dorky/weirdo/creep (all monikers for gentlemen of low societal value to women). That said though, I know you certainly don’t have to be a celebrity to have what I consider a ‘10’ in the looks department. I know someone is fucking these '8-10’s (my favoured prey, being a quality over quantity fellow. I know most people I know go for the quantity paradigm- shagging as many sub par girls as they can. This offers no succor to me. I would prefer to try alot harder and have less but quality so long as I did get some! which I haven’t yet #-o ) and I bet they aren’t grossly higher in social value to myself if we are taking the whole continuum between ultimate loser at the bottom and celeb at the top; i.e. the average alpha male’s social value in a given city is closer to mine than their social value is to that of the celeb. I’m sure the average women fantasize about sleeping with brad pitt, similarly to how I currently fantasize about sleeping with them yet they know they will never get a chance with a true blue celeb and so ‘settle’ for the most alpha of their social environment. Even if they did meet brad pitt they would probably want to shag him more than anyhting but feel inadequate cos he is so larger than life so it isn’t really a realistic marker of their ‘ideal man’. He has the highest social value for sure but as a mate he probably isn’t too appropriate. So I don’t think it’s totally hopeless however it takes loads of fucking work.

My main issue is to find a respite from this to at least rejuvenate mentally so as to be ‘fresh for the hunt’ as with no respite I feel it sucking away my very soul with little reward. For instance the payoff in any intellectual discussion is usually immediate, there are no particular goals in a philosophical discussion (loose goals of new insights of course but the pleasure I find is in the act for its own sake) other than the discussion itself so the criteria for success is low. I suppose that is why it is easy to enjoy philosophizing about things. The mating game, and similarly any other highly competitive endeavour (I recall playing tennis was equally frustrating when I was playing against a better opponent) is infinitely frustrating if you aren’t on the winning team. So yes it is all well and good when one is winning. I have had glimpses of progress with my desired women which spurred me onwards, however these are few and far between and the majority of my experience is steeped in frustration and anguish. So I suppose taking up other pursuits with a low criteria for success would be a good idea. Actually I’ve found computer games great for this, especially strategy games as they are honing my critical thinking skills while also being fun in themselves (although my graphics card broke a while ago preventing me from playing them, probs why the backlog has seen itself being vented in this thread! :smiley:)

It’s funny you mention about sexual desire not getting any lessened with age. I asked my Dad the same thing recently who is in his early 70’s now (I’m 26 currently since you asked earlier). He said ‘it doesn’t stop till the day you die’ which was a bit disheartening to me as I was hoping for some respite into my ‘golden years’. I think though when it gets to the point that my body is ‘breaking down’ as you so eloquently put it :smiley: then I have the idea to cut my losses, leave the ‘hive’ of city living and go and live in solitude and meditate and study magick and all other things spiritual (non capitalized s) to get ready for the eternal slumber.

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I have only one thing to add. In response to the “women do not share our need” comment – we absolutely do. Perhaps not in the “divide and conquer” sense, but women crave sex just as badly as men do. Or perhaps I’m only referring to myself. Either way shrug I disagree with that comment.

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Hmm, yes I imagine both drives are the same except women have much easier access to sex whenever they want vs. men but I don’t think that women just want sex alone which is why I think only pornstars are generally as promiscuous as men, them and party chicks. Most girls I wager will be up for casual sex given the right conditions but I have found a girl could be attracted to me but unless there is at least a superficial connection then she won’t wanna have sex. I’ve found only the less attractive or what we would consider ‘easy’ girls (merely cos they have less options) will still shag without a connection. I am not talking a deep connection but just that they feel that the guy doesn’t like them ONLY for their body aka ‘I don’t want to feel like a slut’.

I know many people say that women are just as promiscuous as men they just like to keep it a secret. The abovementioned ‘not wanting to feel like a slut’ would adhere to this assertion. So long as there is some spurious reason outside of just sex then sex is not their responsibility and ‘just happened’. You’re a female so interested to hear your take on this.

I have a theory that most women are dissatisfied cos they have betas as boyfriends and that is the main reason for them splitting from them and relationships going awry in general. There are simply less alpha males than there are high value females- by definition the alpha male is a rarity. I have read that ‘80% of women sleep with 20% of the most high valued males’ (this figure is just about pure lusty no strings sex I imagine and says nothing of relationships fulfilling or unfulfilling). Of course the men will be going for it as much as they can but since they are such a rarity not all women will get to interact meet and shag these alphas. In any average meat market nightclub I’d shag nearly every girl in there. Most are 6 or above, some are below but most are above. As we are talking the cream of the crop for comparison’s sake though on any given night I’d say there would be at least 50+ girls that I’d consider 8-10 scale in a pool of say 1000 capacity club. Probably way more actually but being really modest. Any this is a given on ANY night I go, the stats change when exams and stuff are on but in general this is consistent. On the other hand however I hardly EVER see a true alpha male that all the girls are attracted to. The girls hardly ever get ‘picked up’ by guys in the club, not the really hot ones. The less attractive ones have makeouts with guys and stuff (i.e don;t mind acting a littel promiscuous once they are drunk) but most won;t end up shagging the girls. The only time there is a guy of really high value in these places would be if a celeb came and how often does that happen, not much! So the girls COULD shag any of the girls in the club but to them they are like ugly fat girls to men, they have no sexual value to the high value girls.

Any woman even a ‘hog’ could go to a social gathering and some guy would shag her by the end of the night. That’s not the case for men- although the looks aren’t the determining factor for men- it’s whether they are dorky or cool- wherever they land on the spectrum determines their appeal.

From my own experience I have found the power fulcrum shifts after sex. At first it will be me working to try and seem non attached and cool and all that till the girl wants to have sex then after sex it is her who is usually the one who is chasing me trying to meet up with me or even hinting at relationship type stuff when I am then not interested.

This led to me screwing a couple of girls over unintentionally as I was not experienced in relationships but now I am clear that I am not looking for a relationship, or at least allude to it so I don’t get their hopes up. I.e. I wouldn’t say it just to shag them and will often say indirectly how I like my independence and stuff.

Even though women like casual sex I still think eventually they will want to settle with a man more than the other way round due to the aforementioned evolutionary investment in childrearing which has led to such emotional inclinations in either parties. Men wanna spread the seed as much as they can so don’t wanna be tied down and women want an attractive man but also a provider. So even if they are attracted to the alpha they will always subconsciously be trying to betaize him- ie pussywhipping is a natural drive in women. They wanna whip him but paradoxically it causes them to eventually resent him as it takes away the ‘dangerous and mysterious’ edge which attracted them to him in the first place instead making him a placcid fop.

If that is you in the pic, you don’t seem too shabby so I imagine the options are there for you so I’d be interested to hear your take from the ahem enemy camp :smiley:.

So when you disagree with the ‘women do not share our need’ I’d still assert you don’t cos you have access to sex alot more than men do in general. To make an analogy- an ethiopian and a fatass american- they both have the same need for food however the westerner can stuff their face whenever they like but the ethiopian is constantly starving so the desire is never quenched. Now what might be the question is whether or not that sex is in general is with the partners you would like- is the sex as good as could be? To follow the food analogy- do you generally dine on the finest cuisine or are there only macdonalds in your area (I’m interested in quantity of each- ie do you have both quantity AND quality or quantity but no quality or something in between? that would be my interest.

My assertion is that in this society only celebrities/upper tier (aka the NEW aristocracy) of the male populous can have the sex drive of a man with the options of a woman.

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Agape, also do not forget this fact about wolf packs and other animal tribes. Even though the alpha male breeds all the young, the beta males still get to fuck here and there. This also applies to humanity. Beta males can have a lot of sex, or not, but it just does not result in pregnancy. This is the concept of impotency. Every time a male has sex, without fertilizing a woman, it is a result of impotency, in the body or in the mind. This is what separates true betas from true alphas. Alphas fuck, AND, they reproduce. This is not the same for betas. Betas use condoms, or, females are on the pill. Mammal groups work this exact same way. If an alpha detects that a child is not his, then he usually kills the child, or outcasts the mother, or outcasts/kills the beta male.

This happens all the time in domestic abuse, violence, and manslaughter cases. I could make a study about this; it is so predictable.

Same drives, different directions. Women sell. Men buy. However, you should never let anyone attempt to convince you that the male and female sex drives are, “one and the same”. This is completely false, completely-completely false. Men have the urge, Agape, you know what I am talking about. Women do not have that. Instead, they are receivers. They are the attention-getters while men are the attention-givers.

Nothing reeks so finely as a hot chick, ‘10’ on the beauty scale, getting no attention from those around her. She literally goes insane and screams.

This is absolutely true, well done! Good find. Yes, I have found in my own life that at one point or another, an Alpha male has fucked a vast majority of women. However, women failed to “whip him” into a good stooge, a slave to pussy. That is what all women are after, to tame the wile Alpha figure. They want to tame “the beast”. This is what the hottest women, the 10s, are after. They want it all, looks, money, power, security, freedom, everything. Men pay for it all. Men buy. Women sell.

Yes, do not forget the ugly, fat women. A vast majority of women are ugly, fat, stupid, or just plain average. Beauty is a rarity and the sign of physical, reproductive health. One good observation I would like to share with you is, that lots of ugly or mediocre chicks are ‘friends’ with hot chicks so that they hope to get some of the run-off attention from Alpha males. Ugly and fat women know that they will never stand a chance to be seen by an Alpha on their own, alone. So they befriend hot chicks in the vain hope that they can even get close. However, this usually turns out to be a false belief, a delusion of grandeur. Ugly and fat women are almost universally shunned, as are beta males by attractive women.

After sexual relation, the power goes from the hands of the female, into the hands of the male. But most men do not realize this.

There are actually psychological reasons for this, which we could discuss on another thread.

One chick I dumped, I actually told her I wanted to have sex with other women, and she said that was something she could not tolerate. My honesty was my loss, back when I was younger. Now, looking back on that time, I would just cheat on my girlfriend and not let her find out. Honesty is not beneficial to men, or, I should say, the more dominant one of a relationship. If I ever get married or engage a long term relationship, then I will fuck behind a woman’s back and just not tell her. Honesty does not work unless you have the power to back it up, such as wealth or prestige. If I were worth $1 billion, for example, then I could have sex with multiple women and they would not even care if I kept sleeping around, unless of course, one wanted to get closest to marriage or a substantial relationship, something like that. The closer a woman gets to you, as a man, the more she wants to control you and your libido.

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Sexual and otherwise, an attempt to control any desire would fail because most of the methods consists of blocking the desire (which is just hiding and accumulating, only to be released later in greater strength) or re-routing the energy and the desire itself remain intact with the frustration.

Also. some types of meditation (if it’s done well) will amplify the desire, rather than attenuate.

I think it’s better to be honest with our desire, generally speaking.
Understanding our desires, how it works, may help us.

As far as sexual desire is concerned, I think there are different layers.
For example, I think male brain (and possibly female brain, as well) is hard wired to detect certain form/shape such as a pair of circles or curves, and then focus on it.
Also. certain smell, visual cues, etc may trigger sexual interest.
And these happens pretty mechanically without advanced notice nor consent to our surface consciousness.

But there are layers of desire that is influenced by social/cultural context and learned later in our life, in more or less logical part of our brain.

In between them. there are other layers such as emotional needs and so on.

So, it might be a good idea to know our own taste in each layer.
For example, I like this kind of shape, and this type of emotional quality, and this type of intellectual tendency, etc, etc.
And examine how they react to the girls/guys we interact, how they get satisfied, how long, etc.

It’s interesting to see how our body, emotion, and mind react.

Oh, by the way, girls crave for sex as much as us, if not even more.
Maybe less frequent and more intense, I would say. :slight_smile:
But at least they have chocolates and it doesn’t show when they are highly aroused (although it’s noticeable) as much as when we get hard.

And there are many girls who can’t get sex that easily, possibly because they are a bit more cautious about who they have sex with (although there are always exceptions…).
When they are young, it can be relatively easy. But around 30 and later, they tend to get more and more pickier and harder to have a good guy that meets their (dream) requirements. :smiley:

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Most women don’t really have more access to sex than men do. Their limit may be based on a mental block, but that makes it no less relevant. There is a social stigma attached to females who sleep around indiscriminately, creating a feeling of self-consciousness in females who may not have problems having sex with someone just to have sex, but don’t wish to be looked at as a slut, or a lower member of society, simply because they have a high sex drive. I, personally, am not overly concerned with society’s view of what I choose to do with my body (nor do I need any sort of spurious reason), but I’m not a “slut” either. I do have a very high sex drive, as do most females, but the enhanced chance of procuring unwanted STI’s or STD’s prevents me from being downright promiscuous.

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I loled as I read your reply and thought, move over match.com ilp is here to take your place! :smiley:

Yea I’m well aware of the social stigma side of things being a big issue for them/you. I presume that’s why they always pretend they hate it when guys ‘hit on them’ when secretly they may like him. Evolutionary theories for this I have heard from a variety of places is that women back in the old times had to rely alot more on social bonds to survive or else they would be killed if left to fend for themsevles if they were ostrasized from society and so being socially validated/fitting in is more important than the risk of getting laid and being ostrasized.

I imagine it also is genuinely annoying sometimes because I get girls I’m not attracted to trying it on with me on rare occasions and I find it irritating, of course it’s still validating but if I’m not attracted to them it quickly becomes irritating if they don’t get the message so I can understand that side of things. I despise that kind of bigoted behaviour though even if it is social conditioning that made them that way; of course I hide that contempt and don’t make it known. I still don’t see that as an alibi, I see that as just being weakminded, no different to how going along with the crowd with anything else I also see as a lacking of integrity.

I think the majority of society are immature and very far from being self actualized, so I don’t blame only women for that but think most people are weak and have not taken the effort to develop their personalities.

Actually masculinity in general is pretty much condemned in our society. I wonder WTF they are on about when people say western society is patriarchal, I think it’s the exact opposite. Maybe it was a while ago in victorian times when women were traded etc. but not since the feminism stuff. I’m all for equal rights but make them equal! The worse thing atm is it seems it has gone overboard to the feminism side now and women are STILL saying men are shit etc. while taking gross liberties and taking it for granted. Women (not saying all but generally) seem to want all the power and not even acknowledge that there is a gross bias in their favour as they demand even MORE, cutting men’s rights down even more as they go. Women are the ones who can flaunt their sexuality and it is applauded and thought of as PC to do so but as soon as a man starts shouting or shows sexual interest in a women or just gets rowdy with his firends then he is condemned as a ‘brute’ to be looked down upon by society until he resumes his passive cow like disposition. Society in general seems passive and indirect (feminine) rather than aggressive and direct (masculine). If it were patriarchal you’d imagine men would be viewed as higher in society from women but look to your average nightclub it is the POLAR opposite. Men are by default dogs and treated as such while women enjoy almost royal status and are ALWAYS given the benefit of the doubt. It’s not just clubs, that is just where you see the extremes, it’s just the same in general society though. I know they say it’s patriarchal because men make all the buildings and have the high powered jobs but they only do this to please the women like slaves so I don’t see this as them being ‘in power’. It’s only the elite 1% of men who have that power and call the shots. If the power were distruted through the population of men and women you would see the elite alpha males Donald trumps celebs, royalty etc. at the top 1%ile then the hottest women down to the least attractive, then after that the rest of the lumpen male population beneath those women from most alpha to least alpha.

Having said that, even though girls may have as high sex drive I know that they aren’t turned on the same way guys are. For instance it is PAINFUL for me walking on the street just seeing a girl I’d love to fuck but thinking I have a slim chance of getting her. It’s like the story of tantalus who is tied to a tree (something like that) and nice drink flows right up to his lips and as soon as he goes to take a drink it flows away again leaving him dissatisfied. So in this case it seems very different. As for me I’m itching to fuck from the moment I wake to the moment I go to sleep, it’s quite the torment actually. I don’t see myself getting a job while my sex drive is so high, I’d be too depressed. I wonder if it was like this in tribal times as I guess there just wouldn’t be so many women around back then to wrile up the senses all the time. Likewise rape was a viable choice when pillaging neighbouring tribes as a healthy outlet although unless you were the alphas I guess you still would not get the pick of the crop.

I see girls and they don’t have this issue. For one they are turned on emotionally and not visually like men. I have read that for women attraction is like a volume knob and for men it’s like a light switch. So I’m sure you don’t have that constant nuisance like an itch that is never scratched, maybe you do? I can certianly tell that girls aren’t aching to fuck day to day like I am. Or perhaps this is the elusive obvious which is stopping me and most men from the sex lives we want- the fact we think you/women don’t want it as much as we do. Thing is though even if this were the case that you want it as much as us our advances would still be rebuffed due to the aforementioned societal stigmas taking primacy over the shag. I can see women are in their own world most of the time and don’t give two shits about any man that passes them by unless they knew he was already famous in which case they wet themselves but for the ‘common man’ you could just as well be a begger. It’s as if a man being famous allows them to act like a ‘slut’ (I too don’t personally see promiscuity as a bad thing cos I just see it as bullshit social conditioning keeping ppl down like it does with many other things) because if he was famous they have the ‘excuse’ that he is famous so it is justified.

I have been thinking about this quite a bit recently actually. What do you imagine society would be like if the social stigma for women went away completely? I’m sure they would still base their attraction criteria on the most alpha males though. I think the only difference would likely be that they would just settle alot more in terms of casual sex and one night stands would be no big deal cos it wouldn’t be a risk to their ‘reputation as a lady’ any more. So they would still prefer an alpha but fuck an ugly/less attractive guy when they were horny. I guess that would be the same as us guys then as we would still prefer the hottest girls but we will still enjoy a 6 now and then when nothing better presents itself. For girls though they have to ‘play hard to get’ just cos their rep would be damaged if they shagged a low status ugly.

13

As stated in my last post, I’m not overly concerned with the social stigma attached, but more with keeping myself healthy and disease/infection-free. I think women are becoming increasingly sexually liberated, but you can’t expect it to happen overnight, and with the way sexually transmitted diseases and infections run rampant these days, why would you want it to? Women are already at high risk as there are STI/D’s that may be carried by men, but only manifested in women. It’s not often one hears of the female being the carrier. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever heard of it–not to say it never happens, but just to illustrate that it’s much more common for a man to be a carrier with no visible effects than a woman.

It is quite irritating to be hit on constantly. Women know that when a man approaches them in such a way, he is only trying to get into her pants. Now, this may be kind of falling in line with what you’re saying, but think about it. If you were only viewed as a piece of meat to be pumped full of cum every time you went out with your friends, wouldn’t you be a little irritated? While relationships between men and women generally do come down to sex, women do have the desire to be viewed as people.

In keeping with my previous statement, I’ll point out to you that men generally place themselves below women in order to gain their respect, and thereby have a better chance of being able to sleep with them. Men will feign interest in all sorts of activities and subjects they find boring or feminine, will grovel and debase themselves, just to get their dick’s wet. In this way society is still patriarchal. Much of the benefits of the feminist movement are illusory. Women became more demanding of equal rights and so men, to please us and therefore give themselves a better chance at getting into our pants, went along with it. (this is just my personal view of things, mind you)

LoL, if it is painful for you to see a woman you are attracted to but can’t have, you may want to seek out a professional to help you with that :wink:
Anywho, you’re right in saying that women aren’t turned on the same way as men. Men are much more visual than women are. However, that doesn’t mean we don’t walk around with a constant sexual charge. I’ll just speak of myself, since I’m the only woman I know well enough to speak for. I do have the feeling of an “itch that is never scratched.” I walk around with my motor running at “somewhat horny” at all times. Being a very reactive female, it takes little to push me into “very horny.” That doesn’t mean I’m ready to fuck anyone who looks good to me, but I may entertain thoughts of it. Personally, I’m most attracted to, and therefore most likely to have sex with, men who stimulate my mind. I need no emotional attachment, just a general enjoyment of an individual’s conversation.

Removal of the social stigma attached to promiscuous females would probably change things quite a bit, but who is the first to call a female a slut if she’s slept around? A man.

14

I get this but is it not a gross double standard to dress extremely provocatively then snap at anyone who shows interest in the precise things you aimed to draw attention to in the way you dressed (not you personally but women in general who deliberately dress sexy)? Many women dress like ‘sluts’ then hate on people for treating them like it. I think you can still dress elegantly (no need to take it to the extreme of the muslim ‘ninjas’ as someone once called them whether the term be ‘pc’ or not :smiley:) sure without being crass or too provocative. That or you can dress as slutty as you like but don’t complain when you get treated like one.

It’s similar to a rich man coming to a begger and while he offers him champagne and as the begger goes to take the glass the richy laughs and kicks him back saying ‘fuck you! how dare you!’ Something like that.

15

Others judge us on the way we dress, so it is up to us to portray ourselves how we want to be perceived - women who leave more to the imagination get much more positive male attention than those who put it all on show.

16

Many women who dress “slutty” have been conditioned by society and their upbringing to believe that the kind of attention they get from dressing this way is what they should be looking for. Look at the way American society views females. You can’t open a magazine or turn on the tv without seeing a half-naked female, generally without any visible flaws. Men see this everywhere they turn, and seem to expect that all women should look and behave this way. Women see this everywhere they turn, and seem to think they need to look and behave this way to live up to some fantasy. Of course, this isn’t really an excuse, as people should be more intelligent than that, BUT – most people aren’t really more intelligent than that. I can’t even claim to be, myself, as if I’m watching a movie with my man o’ the moment and some perfect movie star with perfect tits is flashing them everywhere, I tend to feel a bit inadequate by comparison.

17

Hah, so aren’t we left with an infinite regress of ‘passing the buck’?

I agree that each party is guilty due to their lack of consciousness about their actions. I’d say this goes back to the problem of the ‘system’ being rigged against us, but I doubt whether there is a ‘hidden hand’ who orchestrated this; it’s just people’s general stupidity that led it to be this way. I.e. advertisers will naturally wanna make as potent adverts as possible and so use the best archetypes of women as poss. thus fueling the fire between men and women and they both buy into these ideals and round and round we go.

18

I certainly never implied that there is a hidden hand behind it all. It’s society in general. What I really have a problem with when it comes to the media’s portrayal of females is their need to use females at all to sell their products. It seems that the general view of these people is, “Slap a naked chick on it. They’ll buy it.” Women are objectified every time they turn around because, at the end of the day, most men only view women as valuable because they provide sexual excitement and release. Your own OP is a perfect example of this. When you see an attractive woman walking down the street, you don’t wonder who she is, what she does, what she cares or thinks about, but instead jump straight to wanting to fuck her brains out, and being pissed at her because you can’t. It’s really no surprise that so many men consider women to be brainless nobody’s with nothing more useful to contribute to society than their ability to carry a child. Ya’ll don’t take the time to process that we are walking, talking human beings who think and feel, you just get pissed because you can’t get between our legs whenever you want to get your rocks off.

19

See again it comes back to a rock throwing contest :slight_smile:.

Men are the ‘demons’ for following their natural drive for sex.

This is my main problem and why I say it’s the ultimate paradox because I am very intellectual and rational in everything else in life however my desire to procreate is a constant nag. I’m only following something which is a natural inclination and yet am vilified for doing so. [-o<

I guess self actualization is all about finding a balance and healthy compromise (which means precisely not repressing one thing over another but finding a socially acceptable way to express them all) between all these conflicting forces which are pulling on the individual (Nietzsche also agreed with this).

20

Men are not “demons” for following their instincts. What makes them disgusting is that they’ll sit and bluster on for hours about how brilliant they are, how they’re more intellectually inclined than females, then turn into slobbering dogs as soon as they see a girl in a low-cut top. I enjoy males, in bed and in conversation, but I don’t strike up a conversation simply to get them into bed. Do you see the difference?