are we responsible in any way for the way other people in our society act? how do other peoples actions make their mark in our lives?
i had a class the other day and the professor accused everyone in america of being responsible for the murder of the american indians simply because we were taking advantage of the prosperity our society has achieved via exploiting others.
is our lives deeply shaped by the way others act on it? the military, the government, a family? is a father, a leader, or some military sect responsible for our well being? can they claim that responsibility?
the first lecture i attended was turned into a racist anti american rant that turned every white kid in the class against him because he manipulated the language to make white kids sound like mass murderers. then of course the sole black/native american kid in the class was bothered when the white kids tried to play down the fact that early explorers almost eradicated an entire race… probably the most inapropriate attempt at “exposing kids to the real history of america”.
his point that white people historically are horrible went without saying… everyone knows that. it was a mess.
anyway… guilty by association. i hate that shit. especially in my classes case when the association is an exagerated stereotype.
i dont mean via influence. i mean remote links to yourself. not so much are you inspired by military actions but are you literally responsible for military actions or vice versa. if i was with a drug dealing friend am i responsible for his selling drugs? if im with a friend who has a drug dealing friend am i responsible for his dealing drugs? if my moms brothers cousins daughter is a drug dealer am i responsible for her selling drugs?
legally you can say yes to the first one. maybe to the second one depending on circumstances. the third one no one would really in their right mind say yes to yet still somehow people ive never met are fighting to save my life halfway across the world. i dont get that. someone explain it to me.
see this is exactly what i mean. how am i the conquerer? i would never even pick up arms against someone yet somehow historically ive conquered a whole race of people and destroyed them.
the white kids didnt deny it they just tried to say it wasnt that important. which is retarded but i think it was the result of not knowing how to respond to the situation. unless they actually do think native americans and blacks are unimportant.
i dont feel guilty. i feel bad because its a horrible thing. i dont feel ashamed and im certainly not proud of my country just because i was born in it. i dont view my wealth as stolen from them.
in all reality i couldve very easily said to the professor that i immigrated or my family did well after these things even happened and am totally unresponisble historically. but because im white he would probably disagree anyway. or he wouldve accused me of crucifying people. stupid romans.
cba1067950: are we responsible in any way for the way other people in our society act? how do other peoples actions make their mark in our lives?
i had a class the other day and the professor accused everyone in america of being responsible for the murder of the american indians simply because we were taking advantage of the prosperity our society has achieved via exploiting others.
K: One of the greatest lessons I have ever learned is this,
In any situation, who has the problem?
did you have anything whatsoever to do with actions that
happened before you were born. NOPE. We cannot
be held responsible for actions taken before we were born.
You can only be held responsible for actions taken that you
understand. For instance, if you break a vase, and you understand
breaking the vase is wrong, then you can be held responsibly,
otherwise no. So in the case of the professor, you have to understand
who has the problem. Certainly not you. If he holds guilt that is
his problem, not yours. Understanding who has the problem,
goes a long way toward creating peace in one’s life.
Your professor is a narcissist. This is a listed mental disorder. Flee.
Or suffer your whole life over people who are dead and gone. This is left-wing sociology you are being forced to listen to. Is it a Soc class? If it is, you got what you deserve by signing up for the class. If it’s History, try to get your money back. Seriously.
And there is little academic freedom unless it plays to what is liberal. Try being against Affirmative Action and becoming tenured as a Black or Womens Studies professor.
cba, you are correct, the professors are often on an anti-government rant, especially against conservatives. Even when very liberal, their rants were terribly offensive to many students.
Remember, legally, they cannot touch you and hurt your grade if you take an opposing stance, and it is well supported. Sure, you may earn a B+ or A- instead of a solid A, but go for it.
Never allow another to indoctrinate you, find the fallacies in their claims, know their weaknesses, and have the courage of your convictions.
At the moment, Ward Chuchill is in deep guano, and hopefully will be fired.
Do professor have influence on you. Yes, and many of their lectures may influence you for many years to come. Many influence us in many way, it may be subtle and not really evident at first, but as the years roll by, you will reflect regarding how the many people you have met, and spoken with have positively and negatively influenced your. Those most influencial may be your parents and siblings.
The world history was written by the victors wn the blood of the defeated. This we all know and understand. The fact that we have a bloody history is unplesant, and it’s understandable that there will be those who hold you accountable for the actions of your great grandparents.
after all they get treated as the defeated their entire life since birth, as were their parents and grand parents. to expect anything else would be stupid.
On a regular basis I need to contend with the fact that I’m white and that my predacesors were Jerks. However when you act kindly and dont take predjudice to heart, even those who previously hated you will help you.
It’s an interesting one. I’ve no doubt, personally, that your professor is using this a way to try and stimulate some deep thinking on your part. He may or may not eventually own up and say “Ok I was a bit harsh in that lecture, but hopefully some of you thought about the nature of responsibility…” or something.
However from what you have said in the posts after your first, it seems he has failed - don’t let it bother you to the point that you switch off your brain. Analyse what he claims to be asserting - is there any chance in which it IS your fault? What would happen if everyone in america stopped buying, for example, products which supported the destruction of native land (or whatever the bloody dispute is about)? Vegetarians have used the similar argument - yes, one vegetarian might not stop many animals from being killed, but what if millions of people stopped buying meat - would it end the “problem” of meat production? What would have ended the “problem” of american indians vanishing? If you’re able to identify a possible way it could have been prevented you can then ask yourself if you had any part to play in encouraging a system which you have identified as responsible for something bad. At which point, you might also ask yourself how conspicuousness plays into things when it comes to ethics. Somewhere in all that you should be able to come up with some counter examples to embarass your professor in class, that show how agreeing with him would make him and you into hypocrites.
At the moment are you, similar to the professor attempting to impact on anothers viewpoint? Don’t we all do this? However, is it ethical for a person in power to push her/his agenda in the classroom. Sure, play the devil’s advocate, but alway present present both sides of the claim.
On a public board this is ethical, but with a captive audience, frankly it is not.
If a student withdraws they are usually not refunded the often steep tuition cost. Often a professor will wait for a while before launching with a POV causing it to be too late for students to enroll in another class. This may impact student’s financial aid.
It all comes down do whether or not he is doing it to stimulate thought (and plans to later retract it with explanation) or genuinely wishes his students to feel responsible. If the latter case, one wonders what he is trying to teach.
two ways to take this question. was he saying that everyone in colonial america was in some part responsible for the genocide of the native americans? or was he saying that we in 2006 are currently responsible? dealing the the latter part of the question first, no. i cannot be held responsible for what anyone does besides myself. i don’t control minds. how can i be held responsible?
the first part of the question is the interesting one. this type of argument is similar to some of the other threads happening here also to the point that the gov’t is a democratic republic and therefore acts upon the will of the people. if the people say genocide, the gov’t kills. the majority of the colonial american people wanted the native americans dead or gone. the gov’t did so. can colonial america be blamed, absolutely. can the people be blamed. yes. it was their gov’t, it was their choice.
now take that argument and make it work with the “i cannot be held responsible for what anyone does besides myself” argument above. when taken on the individual level, this is true. when taken on the group level, this is shady. if you are part of the group, you share responsibility. you should be able to see what the group is doing and what you are part of. are you doing everything you can to change the path that the group is going down? if you have, and still do not want to take responsibility for its actions, remove yourself from the group in some way. so while colonial americans are all responsible for the native american situation, when we get down to each individual we may very well find that many tried to stop what was happening or acted against the group.
Playing devil’s advocate is fine, but it sounds similar to indoctrination. A good professor will present both sides. Otherwise, he is indoctrinating a captive audience.
i think he wants to expose us to another perspective. as onlyhuman said earlier
which if youre a racist teacher translates into ‘the decendents of the victors are responsible for murder’. and when i asked him… “how am i currently responsible for things that happened hunrdeds of years ago” he responded… “youre reaping the benefits of what those people did.” and of course… trying to debate with someone who has the floor and your grade is in some sense pointless. i wanted to ask “should i give my stuff to the dead indians?” like
… but he wouldnt call on me after that. plus i cant deny that i am reaping the benefits. i mean this country developed a lot of its wealth through taking advantage of other people currently and historically but still that has nothign to do with me. like bishop said
… as a country were committing crimes but as individuals some are not. and thats a lot to explain when youre not the teacher.
and as aspacia pointed
… but its the only class thats open and i already switched enough crap around. ill just suffer through it. i dont mind liberal agendas or insults to politicians of any kind but attacking students especially when he has no idea who we are is ridiculous.
