Revolution From Your Bedroom

I have read all over the internet, well before 911, about a huge variety of conspiracies. The favourites of mine focus on The Illuminati and all that old Euro stuff. The subject of aliens is amusing as well. Earlier today we discussed the Hollow Earth theory, both of them, and I recall reading about them when I was a kid. There’s even complex geometry that goes with one theory.

After 911 the theories got a lot more serious and of a nature that calls accepted things into question. There is a focus on to the conspiracy theories and know living people that they centre on. It’s not a hidden cabal or an impossible to prove geometry problem.

My question directed at the people that believe in the 911 conspiracy theories. I’m curious about why, in the last five years, there has been no significant movement to physically confront the government that you have zero trust in.

The question is open to all, so feel free to hypothesise.

Ruh-roh.

:laughing:

I’m not interested in being as provocative as a thrusting leather boy, but I think it’s a great question.

I recently read a blog from this young man that I know (in passing) that’s very bright, has a successful band, and has several degrees in science. He was going on and on about a variety of tortures that he was sure were being done to prisoners. He is also sure about the “missile” that hit the Pentagon and the Twin Towers detonation. He is joined by how many more?

Lots.

Now, I am not saying that anyone is right or wrong, but if I believed that stuff to be true, with passion, then an assault rifle would enter the picture at some point. The point would be sooner than later, too.

What’s going on?

Ok, this really is a good question.

Please don’t look at it as a chance to insult people individually, but rather as a sociological study. A couple of people on the site are not to blame for the actions, or lack of them, going on.

Be brave, but be general.

they fear the government or who ever it is they are against.
just a posible answer to the question you posed.

Where’s OG…?

Anyway - perhaps the actual lack of effort put into confrontation is indicative of people not really wanting the answers. Say I believe a general level of “It’s all a secret black-ops government conspiricy” in my daily life - its a handy one-size-fits all explaination for any act I do not want to ascribe to another outside my own country. Conspiricies are perhaps comforting…?

*Believing it is your own government pulling the strings keeps the business ‘in-house’ - it is more terrifying perhaps to have to accept that a foreign power can extend effect from outside your borders right into your own living room should it wish too.

*Governments, however alien-influenced or mind controlled, still have to play by the election rules, and remain comfortably predictable to a greater degree than some islamic-psycho with a big bunch of depleted uranium warheads sitting in his garage.

Sometimes its just nicer to believe that the grey-guys from Jupiter did it, rather than just pure, good-old human evil. Cos if that’s right then - shit - we’re human too - arggh everyone’s a possible terrorist…

A depleted uranium warhead wouldn’t scare anyone, Tab. The only way it would hurt you is if someone bashed you on the head with it. Or maybe broke it open and made you breathe the fumes. :laughing:

But I think you’re pretty insightful about the rest. Perhaps it is oddly comforting to think it’s our own homegrown dictators pulling the strings instead of bearded foreign ones. The imagined conspiracies within are less sinister than the real conspiracies of our foes.

Damn - that’ll be my hippy “Don’t know my depleted uranium from a pair of day-glo spandex flares” deficiency tripping me up.

Doh. #-o

Er. I meant extra-concentrated Uranium with added nicotine and tar warheads. Fuck-Yeah.!!!

Hmm - while we’re on the subject of conspiracy and aliens etc…

Area 51 - Roswell etc…

Another comfort zone belief system. Here’s why in no particular order:

*The aliens crashed - ie, they are bozos just like us. Had too much Betelguesian Warrior juice and pranged their space ship. Then some soldiers gave them a rifle-butt to the back of the braincase and took them off for a quick visit with the men in rubber-gloves. ie: Your average grey is not some super-powered ninja who even de-spaceshipped can twat us with alien-fu.
*The US has UFO-technology. Maybe. Possibly. Yeah. Even if they are being coy about it - who cares…? The less cool countries are always going to worry in the back of their fundamentalist little minds that Uncle Sam might possibly de-cloak in their air-space and disintergrate their hairy buttcheeks.
*Ufo-guys exist. Well, then they must be friendly or something like that. Why…? Because they haven’t rail-gunned a pie at close to the speed of light through the planet yet. Even though we chopped up one of their mates and William Shatner twatted the salt-sucking monster. Ergo - its all luvvy-duvvy tentacles across the galaxy and stuff.

Who wouldn’t want to believe…?

Let’s examine why even the government prefers to let the conspiracies roll rather than just finish the matter either way:

- They do have an UFO - which they are trying to reverse engineer.

Imagine I accidently drop my AK47, fully loaded, cocked, with the safety off, as I’m strolling through chimp-territory. And Bongo Maximus the II picks it up.

Maybe Bongo totally by chance pulls the trigger and blows the head off his rival Boffo. And becomes king of the Apes. He’s got problems - one - no way hosé can he replicate another AK47 - he lacks the maths, the knowledge of metallurgy, explosives the tools the factories etc… A gun is not just its components but a whole era of tech-evolution - chimpy lacks the background and not everything is intuitive. And two - as it stands, his ammo, and therefore his powerbase, is running out. He can only pull the trigger so many times before it clicks on empty.

The US has the same problems. A UFO will appear to function by magic. Even if they figure out how to fly one, they still have no idea what all the buttons do, or how much space-gas is in the tank.

Do they want to admit how stupid that makes them feel…?

- They don’t have a downed spacecraft at Area51:

Hmm - then it must be soomething even worse…!!! What are they doing there…? :astonished: :astonished: :astonished: :laughing:

All in all, I’d be very happy even to suspect that Turkey had workable faster-than-light technology hidden in a secret lab under the Blue-Mosque.

Shh - You didn’t hear that from me.

Coverups are a gimmee in any gov’t. or corporation or business. Hey I don’t tell my kid things that may effect him. I have my logical parental reasons. There are secrets that we all have. That is covering up.

There are good reasons for coverups and there are bad reasons.

I know there are things about the running of a country that I am better off not knowing, cuz I want to sleep at night. If I knew what they knew, wel I doubt I could afford the ulcer medicine. does that make me weak, no pragmatic. i can’t even begin to grasp the whole situations that are intertwined together. One part may be showing that does not look good but it is only one part. there is a whole that we can’t see, because we don’t have the files, the network the responsibility, the knowledge. I don’t trust em but, Niether can i judge or attack until I see the whole.

Tabula,

That was some very creative writing, and enjoyable to read.

It seems that you suggest that government conspiracies actually act as kind of relaxing mental agent on the population of believers. If you’re correct then that explains the lack of action being taken on the part of the believers.

The sad contrast is that the real stress is on the people facing the situations head-on, and those people are the members of the government.

Another poster mentioned that fear plays a huge part in the lack of action seen. The concept of courage is usually defined as the ability to overcome fear to face dangerous situations.

From a humanistic point of view, I can understand how fear can be very difficult to beat for some. However, millions of people subject to such numbing fear is difficult to imagine.

So, maybe it’s fear or maybe it’s that the ideas sooth as Tab said. It could also be the case that young people simply don’t know how to organize and get weapons, spread effective propaganda, and so forth.

We still need to hear from so believers. Remember, we are not trying to make fun, but to understand.

UFOs:

I believe that they are military craft.

They most interesting and logical thing that I’ve heard is that they are craft that work using magnetism.

Awhile ago I read a news report that a person was killed when an MRI that they were in pulled a fire extinguisher from the wall and smashed their head, which caused the person to die. Now, this is a machine that sits in a room and is designed to be strong enough to send waves through a human body, and yet it can pull a heavy metal object from across a room with enough force to kill.

So, imagine a much, much stronger version of this device but with the poles reversed. The concept is that the machine pushes against the Earth and then skims, or skips, across it on a magnetic field.

If a gun were placed to my head and I was forced to choose, I would go with that one.

Kriswest

I like your last post.

We are all humans and, as I said about courage, having limitations is not a sin. We all need to do what we can, and what we did do, or are doing, is all that we can do.

I’d gotten so cynical and jaded at one point that I began to look back upon the whole phenomenon of “conspiracy theories” and saw that they had become a thriving cottage industry that preys upon the need within a sizable sub-set of the overall population to see that there are indeed conspiracies behind everything in everyday life. I’m not saying that there aren’t any true “conspiracy theories” out there, but, like anything, you’ve got to look at them with an objective eye and not just accept they are true b/c you want to believe they are true. Hey, maybe a single magic bullet did perform some spectacular acrobatics and actually killed JFK. You gotta remember that Jack, and fmr. Tx Gov. Connelly were in a moving vehicle at the time of the shooting which affects bullet entry velocity, trajectory and a whole host of other variables that alter the way a bullet travels thru a given object, be it of living tissue or otherwise.

N.

Hey Mr. P.,

I think you perhaps overestimate both the human animal’s degree of giving a shit, and the degree of concern over conspiracy theory and theorists in the echelons of government in general.

Let me tell you a true story.

Just after I moved to Turkey in 1996 a scandal broke loose in a little city called “Susurluk” (which ironically means something to do with ‘silence’ when translated) - A scandal which proved a number of the local conspiracy theories true.

A government car crashed and killed all its occupants. Its occupants were: A highly placed politician. A notorious Mafia Kingpin. A chief of police. In the boot was: A lot of money. A lot of drugs. A lot of guns.

All of this was copiously photographed by local camera-jockies. And went to national press the next day - it was front page news for weeks…

Nothing happened. The Government stonewalled. The Turkish people went ape. Every night at 9pm the whole country’s populace went out onto their balconies with a pot and a pan and banged - they flicked the lights on and off. In Izmir, in Ankara, in Istanbul. About 30,000,000 people.

Nothing happened - the government stonewalled. Even today - about 8 years later - no-one has a clue. And no-one really cares. Mention Susurluk and you get a shrug and a “that’s life” grin.

Why…? The country didn’t fall over. The economy was so fucked anyway that the blip on inflation caused by loss of confidence in the government was inconsequential to the man and woman in the street. That party’s government fell, another took its place on the back of different promises - but the system that supports these omissions, these polite, pained smiles and secrets remains unchanged. Of course it does.

People are very flexible - they will sweep anything: David Icke’s reptile politicians, hollow Earth Agartian supermen ruling the world, UFO’s abducting rednecks and investigating their arses - anything - just as long as nothing hits them where they live.

And where do people live…?

In routine, in the certainty of tomorrow. As long as Joe Public can crawl out of bed, curse the clock, eat something crunchy, shower, shave and go to work, get paid, convert that pay into food and other essentials to quell the voices of need and desire within them for another month… They couldn’t really give a fuck. Not really. A minor whinge perhaps, a raised eyebrow - some polite demonstration of sufficient outrage perhaps… In public.

People have no real interest in the final page of life’s great whodunnit. Just so long as they have the means of getting the cash to fill the fridge, a bank to put some by in, and an economy stable enough to warrant the whole concept of ‘saving’ for a rainy day.

Life goes on. Outrage takes too much energy to support. ‘They’ know this.

Well - at least I hope ‘they’ do - whoever they are. :laughing:

Tab,

I have lived in placed where people will react and in a very dramatic manner. Some, people are willing to live like animals to achieve their goals. The 60s and 70s in South America was a very politically active place with all manner of extremes. Currently, it’s pretty calm except for Colombia, and even that’s improved.

I think that what matters is the focus on youth that the region has, the amount of personal power individuals believe they have, how comfortable the people are with killing, and closeness of the community. These factors give a pretty good idea about how much a government can get away with.

Did you see the troubles in Hungary?

The people hit the streets and got very angry. It seems serious, but really it’s child-like. The thousands of angry people demand that the president step down!

What stops it all?

The president says, no.

What happened was a shade of just a handful of years ago.

Your “cottage industry” concept is what I had been thinking.

A quick look on the internet finds lots of trash and what used to be called yellow journalism. Why doesn’t anyone use that word anymore?

What’s especially odd are the sites that claim to know about scores of conspiracies. How is that logical? Of course there are ads on the sites and other techniques to make money.

It’s not bad to make money, but let’s try having some sort of ethics.

I suppose you are right Mr. P.,

  • Some places and some people’s are more volatile that others. But I’ll bet I’m right in saying that the greater the chronological period of political and economical stability apparant within any given country or province, the greater the degree of passivity displayed by the populace regarding ‘conspiracy’.

The relationship between first-world governence and governed is alike to the one between Sugar-daddy and Gold-digger; the gold-digger doesn’t mind if Sugardaddy fucks about a little, just as long as she gets paid.

Conspiracy theories have a few things in common: A. They can’t be proven. Religion anyone? B. Believers lick the lollipop on both sides. They are important because they “see” the real truth, and they are victims of those who disagree. Win-win.

If you think about it, what we’re doing right now is just grist for the mill. Talking about talking about a conspiracy that can never be proven or disproven.

Dibs on the concession rights. It’s a thirsty business.

Great ad hominem…

You’re utterly wrong by the way - conspiracy theories can be proven, as can all theories. The official conspiracy theory of the London bombings has been proven, at least in the minds of journalists, TV presenters and the general public. The fact that the official narrative cannot even explain how the bombers got to London without lying (which John Reid subsequently admitted), let alone what happened once they were there, seems to have escaped most people.