Right before the universe God thought ...

Right before the universe was created God thought, “There is no point to my existence.” So it metaphorically ‘creates the TV’.

Inotherwords, it had nothing to do, so it created something it could watch and focus on other than itself.

Man has the same gift. He gets bored and very soon after the boredom pops a new toy he can play with or watch.

Some say that we have created such distractions like tv because we wish to hide away from that fact that we will all perish one day, so did God wish to hide from his own demise? Or we created tv to fill the spare time that we have made for ourselves by creating labour saving devices, its a conudrum indeed, save time to waste time we cant seem to make our minds up. Although i cant imagine that god is has the same constraint as time.

You’re assuming that an infinite being like God would think like a finite being like man.

Not the case, I have no idea how a infinite being if there is one would think but I have only finite beings to measure god against so thats where the comparison comes.

if god exists outside of time, there is no before…

-Imp

But there is an outside.

The way you put it, you imply that God was not here first.

He’s right to do so. “First” has meaning only within the context of time. Step outside time, and there is no “first,” no “before,” no “after,” no “last.”

My point is, though, Imp is that you are giving me an english lesson, not arguing the point of the thread.

Do we create children just to watch something out of boredom? God’s creation was an extension of His love.

Please, Murdoc, I’m not Impenitent. Actually, I think I take that as an insult.

But he wasn’t just giving you an English lesson, and what he said does have a bearing in the point of the thread, in that the idea of something existing before time is logically contradictory. He’s absolutely right about that. It’s one of the chief flaws in the idea of a creator of everything.

It’s not just that the words in English “before time” sound contradictory, but that the idea expressed by those words IS contradictory.

Any ideas involving creation must be taken as metaphors.

More like God wishes to hide from his own boredom not demise. Personally, I would rather be dead then alive and with nothing to do.

No he doesn’t, but please people again understand the fact that I cannot use language outside of time so I am using the best words to explain my thoughts that exist outside of time and I think I am doing a damn well good job of it. In some cases what I say requires the use of your imagination.

Yes. I agree.

I agree. It is not possible for me to talk outside of time. Nobody can.

So we must condense a multi-dimensional idea into 2 dimensional words.

I have a very good idea, I really do, now stop picking at the small things.

Is the point of the thread true or false?

Both. Neither. It is a way of thinking that can lead us to the appreciation of truth that can only be understood nonverbally, and not expressed in words. It is also a way of thinking that, once it has done its job, should be abandoned, since it can also suck us into orbit around itself and prevent us from finding that truth.

It is not literally true, but that is not to be expected.

We are a product of God’s boredom.

This statement is true.

No. It is only a pointer to the truth.

Outside of time, there are no events. Where there are no events, there is no boredom. Boredom comes with the passage of time and inadequate stimulation. Without the passage of time, no one can be bored.

This is getting good.

Could you possibly be suggesting a type of heaven?

I think I’m suggesting a logical flaw in the Christian or Muslim idea of Heaven. A perfect existence within the parameters of time, which necessarily involves change, makes no sense. So long as time passes, events happen, things change, bliss grows and diminishes, and we can experience things like boredom. (In fact, if we premise that there is no pain or suffering in heaven, then boredom becomes inevitable.)

The reason concepts like heaven and hell and reincarnation exist is because instinctively we KNOW that consciousness is immortal, but we find it difficult to think in the context where that reality manifests. We think of “I” in terms of the personality we inhabit at this time. That, I am convinced, is NOT immortal.

Reincarnation suffers from an analogous problem. The same religions that include this concept also teach that all consciousness is One, and one with the All. If so, then how is it meaningful to say that a living person is the reincarnation of any specific deceased person? Are they not, instead, the reincarnation of everyone who has ever lived? And, since we are talking realities outside time, also of everyone who lives now or ever will?

All of these ideas are metaphors because our minds are limited and cannot easily grasp the realities directly, and even when we do it is even harder to communicate them.

Let us not premise that. Heaven does not know of good and evil. Simple as that. That is why it is seperate from us.

Ok. But, are you against there being a ‘heaven’ or a place where there does not exist time and therefor, change? “A peaceful surrender”

I mean we have telelscopes that reach lightyears away and no sign of heaven …

But, if there is not this place then there is a ‘before the universe’. And if there is a before the universe then that still suggests a heaven … i dunno at this point im going crazy. I need a heaven(break). get it? :stuck_out_tongue:

Yes, in that “place” implies space, which implies time. There is a state of being that is timeless, but that state of being incorporates everything that we experience temporally within itself. In that sense, we are in heaven NOW, we just don’t see it.

OK, well, when you come back from your break, consider this: there is no “before the universe,” because the universe includes all of time and there can be no “before time.” But if we recognize that “the universe” as a whole includes all temporal points, i.e., what we would call the past, present, and all possible futures of the universe in one whole, then you have timelessness or beyond time.