So just right beyond our reach is this wonderful thing we have debased down to simply ‘timelessness’.
I want timelessness really bad.
Your assuming an infinite being could create another being that had no part of him in it or is outside of him, that is illogical.
Because there is so much poop on top of it. Too many buttholes in this world. 
I totally agree.
Just because we can not understand the intricacies of an infinite being does not mean that we do not bear a minute resemblance to him, so I dont think ponty is pointing towards that.
Can we possibly try, with our limitted mind power, to describe What God does and does not think (outside of what He told us) when even looking on His face in the sinful nature is enough to kill a person? Suppose bordom is sinful in nature in the eyes of a totally sinless being-
Yes, his personality is evident in all his creations, to get a glimps of how and what God thinks you need only to look and nature.
only god knows and any very advanced logicists would know, that is if it is to be known, but you can learn a little to allot about the creater through undertsanding his creation.
yes we can discover the probables and possabilities within the limits of comprehension.
“(outside of what He told us)” … pfft…
what of it ? there are many viable reasons to kill people, all reasons to kill people are, if there wasnt a good reason behind it would have happened, same goes for every event.
why would we do that ? wheres the basis to suggest that boredom is sinful, theres no such thing as ‘sin’ the word exists and beleif of it exists, but its use has flawed logic so actual sin does not in that respect.
Sorry- you lost me right after the pf and before the ft part
I think you misunderstood me- Of course we have ligit rewasons to kill- I wasn’t talking about us killing, but hte fact that looking on God would kill us.
Go’ds commands- Sure htis needs more annalysis- too tired right now
KingDaddy
I meant moreHis perfection- yes, we can glimpse His attributes and gain a small understanding, but digging deeper into His eternal perfection and what complete perfection means I think is beyond us-
So nature is not complete perfection, this world and all the planets are not complete perfection? Can you show me the flaws or the logic in God crating a flawed universe?
So that it keeps trying to fix itself. . … And God is the flawed universe.
No it isn’t perfection- Not any more- But remember, that’s the way we wanted it, that’s why we ate the apple when told not to. Our pride said we knew better than God- Boy were we wrong. We traded the incorruptible for 5 minutes of eating bliss.
That’s a strangely pessimistic outlook, how about so that it is able to fix its self in spite of the severe damage we do.
There is no trying to it, it does fix its self.
Then please show me the flaws and qualify that with some logic as to why you are able to judge something so complex that still operated to observed perfection. You idea would mean that this omniscient God didn’t plan for or already know that someone would eat of the Tree of Knowledge, how do you explain God being so short sighted with poor engineering abilities?
Hi sorry for the delay in answering. First we don’t know that Adam and Eve and everythign before the curse was poorly designed. If you’ll recall, God said the ground even was cursed after the fall, and that life would be struggles from there on out-
Omniscient God did forknow, there are two wills of God- His perfect will and His allowed will- His allowed will comes from love and free will that He extended to us. Without the free will, there can really be no perfect love in us to offer Him. Adam and Eve didn’t have to sin, not their children all the way down to us, yet, because of free will, we did, and we forfeited perfect love and care of a God that created us. God knew it was innevitable- it had to be in order for us to experience free will
I’ll have to pick this up tomorrow- not thinking well tonight- But basically it boils down to the fact that God loved us so much that He didn’t force us to accept Him thus making us nothign but robots incapable of rtional thought outside of His will.
God knew Satan was going to sin- He didn’t prevent that either- could have, but didn’t- Your qeustion is a good one and one that is much deeper than my scattered vbrain can manage tonight though- I know this was basic and didn’t answert much- I’ll address it tomorro\w hopefully
can you back all these claims up with the logic reasoning ? or do you just like to accept what the bible/church says ?
Oni- there was no need for that statement- I had said I realized what I wrote was too general to be much more than statements of faith, and that I’d work on a more deep answer to the question because it IS an improtant question dad had. You know darn well there have been sound logical arguments for the existence of evil and good, and that the two originate from sources, and you also know very well that arguments have shown the need for both are necessary IF man is to experience true freedom of will. Your little statment was nothign more than a petty indulgence taking a stab at somethign you don’t agree with hoping to make the Christian look stoopid. Kick it up a notch and keep it civil.
=D>
Naz:
I’ll wait for your complete answer because I can dig a lot deeper into this myself and show how and why without even contradicting the bible.
I was just skimming the surface, if your having trouble with this, your in for a ride when I ask you the really tough questions.
King- your question, as I mentioned, is an important one, and one that has bothered a lot of people, and been cause for much thouight and reasoning down through the ages “How could a loving God ‘cause’ so much hurt to exist ? If He’s truly good, wouldn’t He have stopped the process of the bad right from the start so that everyone would experience perfection and not have to suffer?”
As I mentioned, evil had to happen in order for free will to be true. I think you’re probably aware of the arguments for why, so I won’t go into much detail here on that except to briefly lay it out- I’ll point out that we tend to judge what is good, evil based on our limitted understanding of time. We see this life as being of utmost importance, and can’t seem to think beyond what we experience in this short period.
Sure, pain sucks, intense suffering sucks, unridled evil sucks, but compared to eternity, and the perfection we’ll have for ever, this life is nothign more than a temporary inconvenience at best. Once we can come to terms with the fact that we tend to weight everythign based on our immediate or short terms desires to placate and pamper ourselves, and understand that there is much more to life than this existence on earth, then we will begin to understand more, and appreciate more, the reward that we will receive for all of eternity.
Evil was necessary to bring about thje knowledge of the good. Evils are necessary for pointing the way toward the greater goods, for amplifying the goods, and for deepening our appreciations for the greater goods.
Now, it’s true that if we were all created as omniscient beings that we would automatically know all things and would understand the consequences of evils and would thusly avoid them liekhte plague, but then, we wouldn’t really have free will then, somethign we all value and cherrish.
Suppose that people had never been run over before, and then, If the good fella down the street who neverdid harm to anyone, get’s run over in the prime of his life, then, we see the harm it does, and the greater good of our species becomming more alert and careful comes about. Sure, we might have reasoned that it might hurt to get hit, but until we see the devestation with our own eyes, we can’t really grasp the severity of hte situation. We learn more to respect life, and to appreciate the fleeting nature of it and to set our priorities right, and focus on the eternal more than the temorary.
Let’s alos not forget that the evil one’s sole intention is to cause doubt in people’s minds about the goodness of God- If he can do that, then he has won a victory in that the person deepens their anger toward a God that they see as ‘owing’ them something.
Besides, if there were no evils, there’d be no sense of exhileration and ‘zest for life’ that drives so many free willed folks- and while this temporary life is nothing compared to eternal existence, it still is not without worth.
The compensation for our sufferings, in the eternal sense, far outwiegh the temporal compensations we might recieve if God were nothign but a vending machine available to reward us all for every whim and fantasy we migth imagine while alive on earth. God promisses to right the wrongs done us, if we trust Him and beleive on the name of His Son. That faith however, will be severely tested at times, but on one hting you can be certain- God is the God of His word.
A good can’t really be pointed out without some kind of bad to compare it to, and to wiegh it against. That’s how we’ve developed our ‘good scale’ by which we judge. The problem as I mentioned in the beginning is that our scale is biased in the sense that we weigh everything based on the temporary, and not on the totality of eternity.
Don’t misunderwstand King- I’m not having trouble with it, what I do have a problem with is mental exhaustion due to illness- which leads to a problem explaining what I know astutely- however, I’ll do what I can to spill some of what I’ve learned. I apoologize in advance for obscurities and scattered thoguhts as voicing what I know comes out convoluted at times due to hte exhaustion of mind. What I’ve learned may or may not be enough for you, if not, I’ll conceed it to ya, and try to find others that have answered in better answers than I could- I’m not put off by the ‘tough questions’ simply because there are soemtimes no concrete absolutes that will be the end all answers that satisfy. The fact that we might not achieve the absolutes shouldn’t scare us off from exploration for the sake of deeper understandings. I like rides, so let’s go-