So, some precocious young lady in my son’s grade two class is letting the cat out of the bag. My son disagrees with her, and is seeking my input. I would prefer to let Santa gradually fade in a coma, or something. Being a first generation atheist, however, I have a limited number of easily apparent deflectors for the issue. It has, granted, given me cause to make such basic distinctions as: that whereas Jesus, the key Christmas figure (I’d so far chosen to be negligent here), had real flesh (I leave it at that), Santa has “imaginary flesh”. He’s not buying it. I say, well things are different for adults. He continues to seek my perspective.
Put as a philosophical issue, what is at stake when one is in the position of settling a foundational theological issue for another? In my own case, my father and I went on a walk and he gave me the news. I responded by saying, “But there’s an Easter Bunny, isn’t there?” My son already figures it’s someone in a bunny suit, so he’s ahead of the game in that respect.
It’s not my purpose, by the way, to raise my son as an athiest (any more than I am devoutly a non-believer - I’m not, though I lack belief). In fact, I’d rather he make his own mind on that score and maybe even teach me something, sometime…
I say play with the fantasy, but also keep it a fantasy. I was raised to believe in all sorts of nonsense by my parents. They didn’t believe in it either and, of course, that came through. So it was magical for a while to have Dryads and Hobbits, and all that as real things, though I was always skeptical (sounds like your son is too!). Sounds like he is right on track. Just play your part and keep a smile on your face while you do it.
I think any way you go about it there’s going to be a moment of realization in the chap’s mind when he realizes that Santa isn’t real. One thing you can avoid through careful maneuvering is not having him think you’re a liar. I have a feeling I don’t know what I’m talking about when I say this, so brace yourself, but I’d also be careful to let it be known that just because Santa isn’t real, that doesn’t mean he should now act badly, or some such. You know where I’m getting at.
Personally, I can’t say that I’ve actually really believed that there was a Santa Clause, so I can’t really relate with the sense of loss that your kid may feel. The figure of Santa was around during the holidays, but he existed only under the context of just a festive ritual thing people brought up once a year. I thought it was silly. Actually, Santa Clause came around during new years eve, not Christmas where I lived. And I remember him coming along with a young Santa Clause who, as the story goes, would become the elder Santa the next year. And he wasn’t called santa clause, though he did wear the traditional clothes, and had the same proportions as a man. He’s called, “the grandfather of the new year.”
I like Ucisore’s idea of teaching the child about the story of the real St.Nicholas, it doesn’t have to include all the Christian baggage so it needn’t matter whether you are an atheist or not.
Let’s see. I would tell him that you made it up, that it’s the custom here to go with that particular bit of make-believe, because it’s fun. He will eventually figure this out (one would hope) - so you might as well tell him the truth. Or not. Flip a coin. It’s just the santa thing.
Thanks for your input, folks. I’ll keep you updated on major developments through this thread, if you’re interested…
Especially for the atheist parent, Santa is a tutorial for talking about God. Does your advice hold here, also? I don’t mean to turn this into a Parents’ Forum (or maybe I do), but I do value multiple perspectives, and yours are certainly a plurality of one for me.
I have visions of taking my son on a Grand Tour of the temples at some point, if he demonstrates interest in such (though he wouldn’t be able to bring his Nintendo, which might nix that); of reading Rilke’s Stories of God with him; anon…
Due to playground issues and the like, nevermind the delecacies of parent/child bonds, kid gloves are a must here (I think). Do my Theist friends have thoughts on how their positions accommodate my situation? Do my non-Theist friends have parallel experiences? It is, unfortunately, very frustrating for the atheist parent to have to confront the ubiquity of Christianity through one’s child’s eyes. This may explain to you some of the voraciousness of some atheists’ anger…
Anyhow, in the name of raising my child best as my wife and I can, all thoughts are welcome.
Again, I don’t have children, but I am an atheist. I think your notion that the santa story is in any way analogous to the christian god story is, well, vulgar. If you have that much active disdain for christianity, you may well enough leave any education about christianity to others.
I realise that’s not what you want to hear, but it’s my opinion.
We taught Santa as an ideal, not a person. The person part was just a fun way of explaining why we should care about each other, share with each other, love one another. Santa, Rudolph, and Frosty are just characters like in the Nintendo games.
The mixing of the ideals and christianity will come later. Deal with them later as the child has greater conceptual abilities.
Thanks for the opportunity to clarify, Faust. Indeed it was called for, and good on you that it came from your quarter… Vulgar, perhaps; certainly childish. The idea that there’s a guy with long white hair and beard who dispenses gifts… No, I don’t want to suggest we play that game. I’m an ex-Catholic, and left on relatively good terms (in fact, as a Catholic, I had to leave, given that I could no longer recite the Creed in good faith). I do not hate Christianity, but I do have some very immediate problems in its regard. I see this thread as a matter of applied philosophy, not vulgar entertainment.
Not that I haven’t on occasion in my past spewn vitriol; but in general it’s not my m.o… I certainly don’t want to seem like that is my objective here. Very much the opposite. Sorry, I haven’t addressed academic contexts for well over a decade, and it may take me a while to regain my writing voice…
Remark, thanks for the reference to the Philosophy thread. I’ll check it out.
Hmmm. Maybe I should clarify. I am anything but an academic.
And I’m not sure that vitriol is to be avoided, either. I think oversimplification is to be avoided. Which is why I agree with Tentative. You might want to wait on this. I also think that sunday school is a pretty good way to learn about christianity. It was in sunday school that i discovered my own atheism.
Thanks for the reference Remark. I imported two replys for general reconsideration:
AnitaS wrote:
Ingenium wrote:
Faust, I agree Tentative is well worth giving consideration to here.
What I do still lack, though, is a critical theme for distinguishing Christ matters from Santa matters (given their unavoidable association calendar-wise). Would it follow that directed discussions about Jesus should be left to a later date, too? That is, if my son still believes in Santa, is that an indication that he may not yet have the conceptual abilities to be responsibly introduced to the idea of “Son of God”?
This is where I’d respectfully hesitate to take your suggestion, Faust, to put him in Sunday School…
Well, a sunday school curriculum is designed with the age of the kids in mind. I didn’t reject religon when I was six or seven. I had my suspicions, of course.
I have to admit, I wasn’t thinking about the date thing, mostly because christians are christians all year, I guess.
When I was in my late twenties and early thirties I attendend a Unitarian church, despite that I was an atheist. I found it interesting. It was okay with them that I was an atheist. That’s the way Unitarians are, or can be. They did have a sunday school. The (adult) sermons tended to be about ethics and about any of the major religions. Thinkers, theologians, historical figures. That depends a little on the individual minister. But a few years of that approximates a comparative religions course, I suppose. Is there a Unitarian church nearby? That may be worth exploring. I think you might find that if you explain that you are an atheist but wish for your child to figure that stuff out for himself, you may get a positive response. You might even like the church yourself.
I think if my kid was heartbroken over the santa story, I would think my kid quite dumb. Perhaps if I had a kid, he or she might well be quite dumb.
Can you explain that you don’t believe in God, but that many people do? That you consider it part of your kid’s general education to learn about religion? Do you want your kid to be an atheist just because you are? Would it be so bad if he found religion?
As Tent says, I doubt that your son could really understand the Christian God. But the story of Noah’s Ark has its own appeal. Still like that one myself.
I dunno, why not follow Ucci’s advice and do both?
Yes, son, Santa is real. Only instead of giving good children gifts, he liked to punch people he disagreed with in the face. That is the way the world works. I’m sorry. Here is a piece of coal, see if you can squeeze it and make a diamond.
Explain to him that Santa Claus is real, that he exists as an ideal in our hearts, an ideal of giving and sharing. Explain that Santa Claus doesn’t have to be a living, existing person - real in the literal sense - in order to be real in the effects he has on people. Tell him that Santa becomes more and more real whenever he leads someone to do a nice thing like give a gift to another person.
It’ll confuse him, so bring up the subject when you’ve got a good deal of time to talk about it with him. If he’s a smart kid and you’re a smart dad, together you’ll figure it out.
That’s how I’d explain it. That’s how I’d explain God as well.
Just to let you know, no developments… though he’s saying you turn into “the god” when they rest your body in the ground and you are peaced…
Thanks for the Unitarian reference, Faust. I had some sort of Buddhist blessing in one, once. You gotta love a church that includes a Zoroastrian banner on its walls! Unfortunately, the one in my area is too far away…
…in the meantime, being a month into Gr. 3, and having by now become duely exaspirated with my over-considered but nonetheless cute and subtle sideways references in regards to the subject matter, my son asked my wife yesterday, “So Mom, what do you think about Santa Clause?”
To which she replied, “What do you think?”
“I’m not sure, sometimes I think it’s you and Dad who put the presents there.”
“So is that what you believe?”
“I think I’m going to believe both.”
Alas, the law of (non)contradiction is refuted once more!! =D> =D> =D>
He’s ready now.
I would tell him:
The real St. Nicholas history.
The history of Christmas (loosely) and why St. Nicholas is involved.
And I would explain what purpose the mythology serves.
Because, really, the myth of Santa and Christmas serves to show kids the magic of the world.
It’s entertainment of experience with lessons and virtues.
