Scientist claims the internet is causing autism.

Philosophy Forums Science, Technology, and Math
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Neuroscientist Baroness Susan Greenfield was on the radio this week. One of her theories is that the internet, especially social networking sites, are creating autism in the people who use them.

Wrong.

Greenfield is confusing cause and effect. Autism is growing in the general population and they therefore need means of interacting with other people, and of dealing with the world, which allow for their disabilities, their mental and emotional dysfunctions. The internet provides this. So it is not that the internet creates autism, but that autism has created the need for an internet………

……………and then there is science. A quote from The Heart of Islam by Seyyed Hossein Nasr: “most Muslims are unaware of the obstacles in the soul of such a skeptic (rationalist skeptics from the west) that reduce the intelligence to analytical reason and prevent it functioning to its fullness”.

It is always interesting to see our western culture through the perspective of people from different cultures. If the above is typical of Islam, then they see, as I do, a culture of people of debased intelligence. Some Native Americans see westerners as children who need to grow up.

At any rate, the truth is that westerners are becoming increasingly autistic and science is a way of accommodating that autism while still allowing a semblance of interaction with the world. It also provides a world view that is graspable and comforting, in so far as it is predictable, by the autistic mind.

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Autism exists on a continuum, it’s not a thing you either have or don’t, like AIDS or a third nipple. I find it entirely plausible that people who would otherwise be very high functioning autistics become somewhat less high functioning thanks to spending 14 hours a day sitting in front of a computer +1’ing things and being told this is classified as a social activity.
It comes down to the difference between an autistic person with crappy social skills because they are autistic, and an autistic person with crappy social skills because they spent their entire life on the internet because they are autistic. MEH!

3

It enhances ADHA, not really a “cause” and not really “autism” (the extreme case of ADHD).
ADHD and autism are caused by medically acquired neurological diseases.
The internet is merely one of very many contributors of both positive and negative influence to the condition (much like women :astonished: .)

:laughing:

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I don’t expect you to believe me, but I’ll just tell you anyway: as it happens, I can, and have, cured autism. I am therefore in a position to be able to say something definite about the condition.

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We live in a time where basically every mental state that isn’t convenient for others to deal with is labelled as a sort of autism. It’s like ADHD for adults. So the claim that you’ve made somebody who believed themselves to be autistic cease to manifest the symptoms that led him to believe such isn’t all that surprising at all. At present, you could ‘cure autism’ by convincing people to take a shower once in a while and cease unduly swearing at strangers.

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I Think it is more than simply that more humans are becoming autistic. I would take it as a semi-metaphor. But humans are less social, more depressed more socially cut off and more shallow than they were - those in populations with high access to the internet, smart phones, etc. They are flitting around, ever stimulated and shallowly connecting, when they do, over distance, with other humans. It is not that they have the same Brains as autistic people, but they are functioning like some versions of autism more and more.

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Could this be the success of a technocracy? So very progressive!

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Human consciousness fading away.

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It could be. But not giving a shit about people often produces Products that benefit those in power as much as more cynically and knowingly create bad effects do.

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Personally I think autism is on the increase simply because awareness about it has increased, hence more people are diagnosed on the broad spectrum from mild aspergers to profoundly autistic. By which I mean I have no idea whatsoever and am just throwing opinions around that may or may not be true.

It’s easy to assume people are connecting less, but are they really? It may well be that they are connecting as much as they ever did face to face, and more than they ever did in social media; without seeing any sort of evidence that people are more socially isolated though you are wasting your time offering an opinion. A scientist, maybe- is what she is saying scientific, not remotely.

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A good number of scientists seem to Think it is the case via their research. I can see where the research would be more floppy than, say, determining the boiling Point of water at a certain altitude, but heck, it’s more than speculation. I find it Amazing how much people talk on their cellphones, text on their cellphones and surf/social media on their laptops when they are with other people physically. To me that has to be shallower on average, certainly the texting. Let alone rude and strange.

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It’s not that I don’t agree that people are becoming less social of course, it’s just I haven’t seen any evidence that people are ultimately more isolated or will be ultimately across their life time. After all the youth have always been accused of being socially inbred. Is this just another example of us adults looking at the social behaviour of youth and calling it antisocial, as my parents did about me and their parents about them and so on, or is it an actual difference. It seems to me that the kids are always accused of being isolated and have been since the beginning of civilisation. It’s a very soft science sociology, I think it’s unlikely the Scientist in question is remotely being objective.

It’s more than speculation? I am not so sure it’s anything more…

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The studies I read, one book that referred to them was The Shallows, were not just or even primarily on Young people. It was people in general. It’s not just one scientist, it quite a large Group. And you can test things like people’s tolerance for things that are not obvious at first sight, how distractable they are, and even the content of discussions. There is a trend towards not being able to focus, to having a flitting attention, to not being able to dig or work with something until layers of meaning or meaning in general becomes clear. I Think this actually can be tested rather well. Again, it is not physics, but it is objective. They are getting pretty consistant results when testing large Groups. And you can compare this to tests earlier in time, pre-digital rev. and also cross Culture.

I don’t remember, however, my generation being accused of not being social or socially inbred. Cliquish, sure, but not compared to other generations. And I haven’t Heard this since. I have Heard that they are lazy, rebellious, and then depending from which side of the political spectrum irresponsible, sinful, selfish, egotistical and so on, but that they were more isolated, more depressed, more shallow than previous adolescents, that I haven’t Heard. Part of the Point is that brain function is changing due to the way it is being trained by the various new media. That creates really rather testable hypotheses.

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I quite agree it could be tested well, but the point is of course has it? They are getting consistent results when compared with people in the past? Do you see the problem with that statement, they never did the same analysis with regard to social media or anything approximating people years ago, so saying that people now have changed is impossible. All you can say is that we now know where we are.

Let’s differentiate between what we heard and what is objective.

Brain function is changing is of course incredibly difficult to prove, in fact almost impossible with the current understanding we have.

I agree it’s certainly a testable hypothesis, I just don’t agree that it is as yet a theory in science.

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Symptoms of autism, some of them, are very easy to spot. For example, with increasing autism, comes increasing loss of awareness of other people and that becomes obvious in bad eye contact. Of course, if you are autistic yourself, you will have trouble spotting this. Also, you can see autistic people behaving contrary to the way animals behave: if you see a wild animal you will see an alertness, the eyes going here, there and everywhere, the ears turning, twitching, picking up sounds etc,. With the loss of aawareness of surroundings, the autistic become dull, loose their alertness. Again, these are quite simple symptoms and are very obvious — always assuming, again, that you are not autistic yourself.

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Let’s face it autism is a neurological disorder that exists at birth and is probably genetic to a large extent, it is not something people develop because they are using too much phone or are not getting out much. The whole thing is pretty absurd as a notion, but if we take the idea that children are becoming less social then it might have some legs, I sincerely doubt they are. I think personally there’s always been an idea in fact for hundreds if not thousands of years that the youth of today is deficient, what is actually deficient I think is understanding that things change from generation to generation. If you genuinely think the kids of today are autistic more than they were, I would suggest it is you that lacks the social skills to put this in perspective.

Let’s take an example that is if not the same contingent, it’s widely believed that children are getting less exercise than they were 10 years ago and certainly 20 years ago, but this is not actually the case (genuinely according to studies kids are as active physically as they ever were). You take the fact that kids are becoming more obese at face value and you might come to the conclusion that exercise is the problem. It isn’t though what is actually the problem is the food we now eat, the sugar and fat rich food is far different from the diet of the past. In a nut shell we shouldn’t of course mistake correlation with causation, children are as active as they were 10 or even 20 years ago, shocking I know, it would likely be shocking that they are as social as we were years ago too, I suspect they are, but the diet of information and interaction is the key not the type of social activity we see as conducive to fitness. Are kids actually losing any sort of social skills, or are there skills in fact different from those we had in the past. If so how can we be sure that they are better or worse, as I said before the whole thing is a matter of conjecture rather than logic or scientific fact.

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The simple resolution to the issue is this: autistic people are psychologically disabled. The level of this disability that exists in society today is simply unsustainable — such a disabled population simply could not maintain a society. The level of disability that exists means that our civilisation is doomed. (And when nyou consider the implication of these high levels of autism, such as that most children born today are born to parents who are too disabled to give them the upbringing they need, too disabled to teach them how to interact with other people.)

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True. The levels of disability are rising. But since it’s more difficult to point to biochemical hereditary changed intrinsic causes, it is easier to hypothesize, and prove that gross social changes have a direct causitive effect.

Psychology is the handmaiden of social/political processes as they mesh with bio/physiological effects/affects.

To search for A cause rather then treating a multi dimensional model where levels of appreception, cognition,and effect are looked at from an input/output scenario, ; is a more useful way of analysing this - think, historically contrived problem.

The social/political/economic dynamo started with the very rapid rise of industrial production… The result was more mobility, functional reliance with associated social problems of disintegrating communities and families. And the rapid progression of all sorts of troubles: bleak political landscapes media force fed tableaux, the occurrence and confusion of regional and national interests, the psycho social shift toward the private away from the public, --with reactions of ghastly projections of overseas obsessions with human rights, the break up of nationalities for economic reasons. I am able to say this forthright, because the industry supporting the production, the sale and support of the petrol/chemical/ auto manufacture business can be said to be the definitive industry world wide. Apart from it’s ecologically devastating effects, the mega industrialisation has been instrumental in creating a fastly approaching totally unsustaning/unsustainable environment.

The psycho social result of this has been the effects on family, community, national and international.

The next stage in the breakdown, of the conscious awareness, is the shift toward. The communications field as the focus of this process. Specifically, that of the internet if not for that as a adjunct source of information, developed to augment already existing patterns of information and communication. What is bothersome, is the communicative depletion which actually made such a development a total necessity.

If this curve of ever increasing functional technological development continues at ever increasing rates of change, it may lead to either of two events:

Either the deficiency is depleting at an increasing rate of change, requiring more and more technological development in communication, or the unnecessary and constant upgrade of already sufficient degrees of technological products have to constantly be advanced upon a technologically and financially unprepared consumer.

The researcher was correct: not only are standard levels of communication being tossed aside as pre planned obsolescent throwaways, but the devolution of an already unstable social system is increasingly de stabilized, as a consequence.

The future has to be a technocrat/fascist industrial state, and the horizon often glimmers the certain limits,which will implode the system, seemingly by necessity.

Since the system is out of control, except some vague support and control mechanisms,it’s unlikely that even a worldwide market can support a total global meltdown. That may not mean the end of everything, but it will mean the imposition of technocratic control.

Orwell was right and HG Wells too, who have seen this coming a long time ago, and were the original planners to draw up the scenario.

The baroness has to be applauded for this late recognition, albeit in the very country she has affinity and heritage with, and where these ideas germinated.

Alas much too late, I am afraid.

Disabilities are therefore quite enhanced by diverting attention/consciousness from real to virtual objects of reference. However I am quite sure, this is part of the project of the brave new world. Maybe there is no alternative at this point, and the whole world is routing for that.

A drastic reversal into alternative fuels would be , if implemented today, followed by social architecture with redifining and redesigning communities, and the drastic investment in mass transit would go some of the way to set some attinable social goals.

It the world is to survive another few generations and beyond drastic action is required NOW!

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See I think you have to approach this scientifically. Is it that there are more labels and conditions than there ever were and hence we focus more on things that would in the past go if not unnoticed less remarked on, or are we changing so markedly in such a few years, that it defies evolution generally? I would suspect the only things that are really changing are the way we label mental illness or mental differences. I could be wrong but some pseudo-scientific bs is not going to convince me. The field is in such an infancy that you would think most psychologists would be wary of making judgements based on anecdote more than research, you would think. :confused:

This sounds like me to be knee jerk science, assuming that something we perceive is true rather than researching it. This would be of course easy to produce scientific studies on, if people are genuinely falling behind in social skills we would expect careers and lifestyles that rely on them would tend to be adversely affected over time. Is this case, well let’s face it no one knows because it’s all just opinion atm. Which I am afraid in science is worth a ha’peny jiz of nowt.

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Exactly and beside that, its all so groovy now that people are getting together. As long as you feel ok, are you all right now! It’s a measure of some sort: of letting go, as if no one around,

But seriously: it’s very simple really. If you feel good and think hey the whole world is within you, then the internet can’t be suspect .

If there is no solution, then what the heck take it as it comes, and don’t think as if there was.

Autism ? Well first of all autistic children get bamboozoled, whoodwinked and overwhelmed from the get go. Their innoscence and gentle smile is sad to behold. But no, give em 3 square meals a day, and let them have sunshine and open air, their crack mom and dad will not delimit their life, not in the least. The welfar check comes in, and we buy TV dinners, and go to bed hungry, but JR has internet, and he is in it for many hours at a time, and we can watch dialing for dollars.he told me him has problem with gurls not givin sex’n all, but told I’m nowdays aint safe, might as well beat it. I didn’t mein it that way, and he’d be gone. Came back now he spends all his time in the bathroom. Told is it’s ok.

Life is beautiful, and the girls are beautiful.

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiit! I’m not crazy, just hi. The shrink down. At family integration said I’ve got multiple personality.
I never know who I will be next. Sort of like Mr. Hive. Dunno. Just acting 'guess. Jr. Will be somebody someday.

They’s been takin about this new world order or sumtin. Dunno. Gotta fix my rear left tire.hope it can take a plug, if not I’d be lookin at a retread.

The scientists sayin autis’ms caused the internet. I dunno. Jr. Is gettin som’thin out of it. When he grows, he either go in the army, like pop’n me’ or he’d be gettin a gd job and we be gettin off welfare.