[stardate, log 4565 (or whatever Kirk used to say…)]
Wake up hung over, kids running around screaming, wanting me to play with them…I do, and as they now play by themselves, I check out ILP and read Bessy’s post…interesting.
Well, let me give you my response, Bessy. Although I sometimes refer to stats or studies etc. to refer to what “the average” person does, this time I’m writing about MY experiences/thoughts etc. only, and unlike many who write on such forums, I don’t mistakenly believe that my way of seeing/doing things is the norm or shared by anyone else (though I’m sure some people might).
Remember the previous thread you started, Bessy? Either you or Vort asked me why I’m so caught up on the physical side of affairs. I can find a physically unattractive person fascinating, charming, intelligent, etc., and I would probably even flirt with her, just b/c that’s my style. But I would not ever consider having any sort of affair with her. I could become very good friends with her but I wouldn’t ever consider an affair. To me, friends are friends, lovers are lovers, wives are wives, fuck friends are fuck friends, one-nighters are one-nighters, etc. (though sometimes in the past I would hope to change the nature of one or more of these relationships). Why would I want to fuck her? Why would I need to consider leaving my wife for her? If I’m not physically attracted to her, why can I not just be FRIENDS? Now, if I’m not getting friendship from my wife, maybe I would consider spending more and more time with this woman to fulfill that need–but in my case, that is not so. If she filled my ego like my wife did not, maybe I would spend more and more time with her to fulfill that need–but in my case, that is not so.
I’ll have to admit that ILP DOES fulfill part of my relationship that may be lacking (certain types of intellectual stimulation). But I’d much rather spend some time online than in a personal relationship getting this need fulfilled, where the risks of falling to the other side might be too great–in fact, yeras ago this DID happen sometimes and I had to be honest with myself and admit what was happening, otherwise I could have rationalized my actions and motivations and then get into trouble. But, it only happened with phyiscally attractive women, so, I also had to be honest with myself about what was going on: i.e., I never felt compelled to spend excess time with physically unattractive but very intelligent women–I met them, spoke, perhaps began to form a friendship, and that was it…nothing excessive or weird at all…but with the physically attractive, highly intelligent (and funny etc) women, I did feel compelled–so I had to draw a line between where I “platonically” enjoyed the no-contact sexual pleasure of being with such sexy, funny, smart women who dug me (on whatever level), and where I actually sought such pleasures (i.e., enjoying time with such women when the situation arose–at work, university, parties, etc–was one thing, but wanting to call them up and go out was another…and it took me a some time to admit that to myself…after I did, I stopped doing such things and really cut myself off from many of the people I used to know–b/c I was honest about my motivation.
And let’s look at the teaching part: Do you know how many of my colleagues are physically unattractive and, quite frankly, have no personality whatsoever? But of course there’s the “crush on professor” phenomenon that many of us enjoy, and in THEIR cases, they fail to admit or recognize that it’s the CONTEXT and not THEM that attracts the students. So, when these professors (male or female), who had NEVER (or rarely) attracted the attention of “beautiful people,” are faced with phyiscally attractive, younger students who want to “learn from” their “expertise” (read, fuck their brains out), why do you think so many succumb? Bessy, YOU might not be tempted by phyiscal pleasures or attributes of others, but that does not mean that MANY others don’t too. I’m sure you’ve seen such things, and I have…MANY times. That is, just like you had certain needs fulfilled by that other man (and wanted other certain needs fulfilled), one need that many people seek to have fulfilled is the fantasy or reality of having a phyiscally attractive person find THEM attractive. If you don’t think this is true for MANY people, then we are living in different planets (remember, regardless of what is considered physically attractive (since our standards/criteria change quite often and vary from culture to culture), most people acknowledge that physical attraction is an important part of intimate relationships…and we can ask my evolutionary colleagues for a biololgical explanation for this if we would like…). I mention the beauty of my wife b/c that is one area where I do NOT need my needs fulfilled. I am NOT one of those people who longs for the attention of attractive women b/c I never had that before or don’t have that now. That is not my gig. BUT, I DO enjoy being in the presence of such people and I DO still get an ego boost when it happens (but not from my students, given the reasons mentioned above); though, as mentioned in the “intelligence” thread, if the most beautiful woman in the world (well, second most beautiful, after my wife… 
) is a total bitch, I’ll have nothing to say to her (actually, I usually talk with her for a few minutes if I’m with an intelligent friend who will get the subtle insults I throw her way, which she doesn’t get…I know…petty…but it can be amusing… ). That’s me…
And it’s interesting what we place importance on, Bessy. I don’t want to get Freudian nor “turn the tables,” but there’s a reason we write what we write or refer to what we refer to. You mentioned your husband’s salary and car. Yes, you were just making a point, but of all the points you could have made, you chose those ones (along with looks, but that’s a response to my mentioning of such things, of course). Personally, I’ve never been impressed by how much money someone has (aside from one period in my life many, many years ago–a period I think was my most pathetic ever…I am extremely embarrassed about having been caught up in that…my only excuse was that I was quite young, was in a foreign context, and was pretty messed up and lacked any type of insight or self-honesty (and I was pretty low on the self-respect scale as well, not to mention the “respect others” scale)), or what kind of car they drive, etc. Anyway, the point of my referring to this is that you went off about ABC, then referred to XYZ out of the blue, which somebody could then use to turn around and say “Why do people have to place so much priority about XYZ???” In other words, I feel you are being very judgmental and seeing things from a very narrow, limited, perspective, Bessy.
Your questions are valid, of course. It’s the anger and hostility and resentment with which you wrote such questions and responses that compelled me to write back. I hope you don’t think THIS message is angry or defensive or rude or anything else. I’m just writing from my perspective and trying not to be judgmental (aside, perhaps, from my comment on your being judgmental…but I don’t know how else to express that).
And again, please don’t think I’m hiding behind a cloak of Freudian proportions or trying to take any heat off of myself by re-directing toward you, Bessy, but when people resond so strongly as they do, there is a reason for that–usually underlying unresolved issues. That is not a judgment but clinical “fact.” And that is why I am not judgmental about others’ sexuality–I don’t have unresolved issues there, so I don’t get something triggered that makes me respond in a certain way. I mean, think about how some people responded to your editing before, Bessy. Some people wrote nothing, others were understanding, and others went medieval on your ass. There’s a reason that different people react differently. And I think the same thing happened here.
Speaking of which, I guess my insistent reference to my wife’s beauty represents my own issues (though I think they are not unresolved). That is, although I was a very cute baby/kid, my tween/early teen years were of the VERY “awkward” variety and that had a HUGE impact on my self-esteem. Not until my mid-later teens did I come back into my own, but those few awkward years did have an effect. And, as not-bad looking as I am, and of the many beautiful women I’ve been with, I am not exaggerating when I say that each time people found out I was dating/engaged to my to-be wife, they were wondering how much money I must have (or something to that effect). That is, even my FRIENDS thought I was out of my league with her (physically, at least), so my wife’s beauty has played an important role in our relationship. However, fortunately, my wife has solid morals and is the most loving, generous person I could have hoped to marry, otherwise I wouldn’t have made such a commitment. And, again, b/c MOST people put quite some import on the physical aspects of people, I raise her beauty to explain why SHE is not jealous when she sees me talking with other people…at least on that level, she knows (and I tell her) that I wouldn’t be tempted to cheat for THAT reason.
Heck, Bessy, I think even YOU mentioned that the other man told you how beautiful you were, something your husband didn’t do enough (I’m pretty sure you wrote that), and this was one of the things that helped tempt you. So, such a reaction formation against referring to or placing importance on beauty, as you demonstrated in your previous message, seems odd to me (again, please re-read your post and see how your words came across–I’m not being judgmental, just trying to let you know how I perceived your message).
Okay, I think I’ve beaten the point into the ground. If I’ve missed something or haven’t expressed myself properly, please let me know (I have written this in bits and pieces, as I’ve been playing with my family throughout the day…).
Keeping one’s word and taking promises seriously is no more a religious idea than a secular idea.
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