Self-inflicted pain.

Is it normal for a human to inflict pain on himself?

Surely suffering from everything else is about the average day for most people. Yet, is it abnormal to hurt yourself?

What about those people that jump off 2 meter heights? They get hurt but don’t they also get so Kudos or whatever from their mates which might be recording it or something?

What about severe depressives slashing themselves or cutting themselves? Is that just a sign of desperation or insanity?

They should just call this the “Death, Hell, and Evil” forum.

ditto,
Why? Is that all you found on this forum here because that is all YOUR eyes could see and identify with and nothing else? Who do you think has the real problem here, Moron!

Lokei,
I don’t think it could ever be “normal” to inflict pain on oneself because it is not ok to inflict pain on anyone. It’s just my feeling that I think those who go and hurt themselves are maybe vying for attention to the distress or problem in their life and not really trying to call attention to themselves. I know it’s hard to resolve your own problems and much easier to resolve others but since the way the world is, “Each to his own” we have to find a solution to our problems ourselves. I’d say rather than hurting ourself, go find a solution instead, it couldn’t be worse than hurting ourself.

There is a rich history to this type of behavior. Ascetics, and flagellants, or other types which do harm to themselves with the idea that they will gain by doing so. There is proof in pain you know, as to the value of that proof I can only speculate, but I do remember having a conversation with a friend of mine a year or so ago who at times in his life had participated in minor acts of self mutilation, and he said something to the effect that by inflicting pain on himself he was attempting to find his pain thresh hold while utilizing mind over body.

Lokei wrote:
“What about severe depressives slashing themselves or cutting themselves? Is that just a sign of desperation or insanity?”

It may be a way to punish ones self or an act of penance.

concordant,

I know you will disagree with me but the fact is that there is no such thing as, “mind over body.” I’ll explain it to you why. It’s because you cannot fool your own mind because you would be using your own mind to fool it. But how can you use the mind to fool itself? You can’t! Therefore, the person who coined the phrase, “mind over matter” was either under some illusion or a fool.

And when depressives slash or cut themselves in places, they are not trying to draw attention to themselves but to the fact that they have a problem in their life which they cannot resolve and so they are indirectly asking for help. Just what I feel. Trying to get them out of depression is not going to help, only making their problem in life go away will.

I know you will disagree with me but the fact is that there is no such thing as, “mind over body.”

Well then, if not mind over body, it is ones ability to fool oneself into putting less urgency or importance into pain when it occurs. What you are saying is that if there is pain then no amount mental technique will be sufficient to destroy or eradicate it, because it is registered by the mind through the body, because it actually exists. If we had no brain there would be no pain. (The difference between mind, and brain is not one I want to go into at this moment) Pain will exist no matter what and any method of diminishing it in ones perception isnt going to make it actually disapear.
In my friends case he was trying to become more tolerant of physical pain, by increasing the amount that he felt on a daily basis. He burned himself with a cigarette once which has left a permanent scar. I’m not saying it works, or that it makes sense, I’m saying it is what he did, and that it was a method he decided to utilize.

“And when depressives slash or cut themselves in places, they are not trying to draw attention to themselves but to the fact that they have a problem in their life which they cannot resolve and so they are indirectly asking for help. Just what I feel. Trying to get them out of depression is not going to help, only making their problem in life go away will.”

I agree with that. I take it that you dont think psychiatric drugs solve any problems. If a psychiatrist wants to solve the problem he’ll do his job and not just load the person up on prescriptions? Although there are exceptions with very severe cases of certain mental disorders.

I happened to walk into a room in which someone was watching a documentary about LSD a day or 2 ago, and there was a french professor explaining that peoples through time and varying cultures would use diferent methods of denying the body to produce spirtual effects. Fasting, dehydration, sleep deprivation, and inflicting pain, just to work themselves into a specific state so that they could expirience the “supernatural.” It’s supposedly a sure fire method when theres no ambrosia to be had.

concordant,
When you learn to quote properly and give my sentence due credit in your post above (the very top sentence that I said and not you), I’ll respond otherwise not. So first make the correction.

(there is nothing new in this post. This was the easiest way to make the change)

concordant,

“I know you will disagree with me but the fact is that there is no such thing as, “mind over body.” I’ll explain it to you why. It’s because you cannot fool your own mind because you would be using your own mind to fool it. But how can you use the mind to fool itself? You can’t! Therefore, the person who coined the phrase, “mind over matter” was either under some illusion or a fool.”

Well then, if not mind over body, it is ones ability to fool oneself into putting less urgency or importance into pain when it occurs. What you are saying is that if there is pain then no amount mental technique will be sufficient to destroy or eradicate it, because it is registered by the mind through the body, because it actually exists. If we had no brain there would be no pain. (The difference between mind, and brain is not one I want to go into at this moment) Pain will exist no matter what and any method of diminishing it in ones perception isnt going to make it actually disapear.
In my friends case he was trying to become more tolerant of physical pain, by increasing the amount that he felt on a daily basis. He burned himself with a cigarette once which has left a permanent scar. I’m not saying it works, or that it makes sense, I’m saying it is what he did, and that it was a method he decided to utilize.

“And when depressives slash or cut themselves in places, they are not trying to draw attention to themselves but to the fact that they have a problem in their life which they cannot resolve and so they are indirectly asking for help. Just what I feel. Trying to get them out of depression is not going to help, only making their problem in life go away will.”

I agree with that. I take it that you dont think psychiatric drugs solve any problems. If a psychiatrist wants to solve the problem he’ll do his job and not just load the person up on prescriptions? Although there are exceptions with very severe cases of certain mental disorders.

I happened to walk into a room in which someone was watching a documentary about LSD a day or 2 ago, and there was a french professor explaining that peoples through time and varying cultures would use diferent methods of denying the body to produce spirtual effects. Fasting, dehydration, sleep deprivation, and inflicting pain, just to work themselves into a specific state so that they could expirience the “supernatural.” It’s supposedly a sure fire method when theres no ambrosia to be had.

(Change has been made in accordance with your requirements)

i have arisen from the dead but im still in purgatory.
anyway, i think the masochistic desire in certain people comes from the death instinct (thanatos?)… freud says that ironically, the death instinct can actually serve to prolong ones life. gratification and a certain sense of ‘security’ comes from self inflicted pain that makes one immune to other souces of pain that is caused by any other origin but oneself.

I believe in mind over body for this reason. Think of the plaecebo affect in pain killing.

“A placebo is a neutral substance, such as water, that has no pharmacological effect. Yet, people being treated for pain with a plaecebo might report relief just because they expect relief. In a classic report published in the 1950’s, 4 out of 10 surgical patients reported satisfactory relief from pain after the injection of salt water (Lasagna et al., 1954)”

Is that not the consious mind controlling the body? If you disagree, please post, I am open to GOOD reasoning.

Jason

I believe in mind over body for this reason. Think of the plaecebo affect in pain killing.

“A placebo is a neutral substance, such as water, that has no pharmacological effect. Yet, people being treated for pain with a plaecebo might report relief just because they expect relief. In a classic report published in the 1950’s, 4 out of 10 surgical patients reported satisfactory relief from pain after the injection of salt water (Lasagna et al., 1954)”-Psychological Science, Gazzaniga and Heatherton

Is that not the consious mind controlling the body? If you disagree, please post, I am open to GOOD reasoning.

Jason

sorry for the double post, i forgot to cite my reference :frowning:

jedi_pocky, I think this death instinct is ones yearning to mock life. To basically stand up and say, “I did not want this any way. I shall harm myself just to prove how little I value it.” Of course one has to ask why people possessed by thoughts like these dont just take a few to many pills, and fall asleep forever. probably because after all, they still actually value it.

Longhorn, that’s an interesting point in my opinion.

Have you ever seen the Dune movie. If not there is a scene in which Paul is visited by a Bene Gesserit sister and told to place his hand inside a box. As soon as his hand inside she places a needle to his throat and told that if he removes his hand that there is a potent poison on the needle and that he will die. At that point his hand begins to throbe in pain, and she asks him if he is truly a human or nothing but an animal, her logic being that an animal would remove the hand instead of face the pain. That is the instinctive reaction would be to pull away. Only a human would endure and so counter act instinct. I think that is another good example of mind over body.

self-inflicted pain although may not be natural, is a sub-conscience motive tht can be justified. this is all coming for a cutter, burner, and peircer. i do have a bias in this topic, i have been inflicting pain upon myself for a long time. it is justifiable, for in many instinces emotiional or mental pain is so unsettleing, that the only way to remove it is to subsiquent it into a physical manifestation and a gretter understanding.