sense deprivation, identity and dasein

[iambiguous]

@iambiguous

Now, I noted this:

I’ll need a translation of course.

Someone who can take an observation like this…

“Therefore , the flux or gestalt between the cognative sense and the affective signal may become unretreable.”

…and, given a set of circumstances construed by someone sighted, someone once sighted and then blind and someone born blind, how they might cogitate differently in regard to something revolving around the points raised above pertaining to such things as Nazi Germany and racism.

@iambiguous

How about translating it yourself?

@meno

Yes but the above is already a translation. Translating the translation may degrade the meaning
But let’s accede, for 3 is a charm.

Note to Ecmandu:

Let’s settle this: a “condition”?

Really, I’m tempted to put this…

“Therefore, the flux or gestalt between the cognative sense and the affective signal may become unretreable.”

…in my signature.

[Meno2 (Meno_)]

@Meno_

@iambiguous

@Meno_

However and really, I d I not consider the above a hoax, as You suggested on a prior occasion.

Please prove me wrong.

I’d consider it a favor

We’ve been going at this now for years.

You say your posts [like the ones above] are not a hoax. But all I can note is that to me they often read as intellectual gibberish. Can I prove that? Nope. But this thread wasn’t created for that. It was created to explore “sense deprivation, identity and dasein” given such contexts as Nazi Germany and racism.

Now, I noted this:

I’ll need a translation of course.

Someone who can take an observation like this…

“Therefore , the flux or gestalt between the cognative sense and the affective signal may become unretreable.”

…and, given a set of circumstances construed by someone sighted, someone once sighted and then blind and someone born blind, how they might cogitate differently in regard to something revolving around the points raised above pertaining to such things as Nazi Germany and racism.

How about translating it yourself?[/qu

Yes but the above is already a translation. Translating the translation may degrade the meaning
But let’s accede, for 3 is a charm.

So as I was treading along, ‘sense deprivation’( and relax, as I pointed the fact that contrary to parent imoression, I am on Your side);

amig says this:

"For some of course there is no ambiguity at all. If they were born blind as a result of medical/biological condition that no one doubts the existence of, there will no 80% accuracy. It would all be guesswork. But what of all the other ways in which those blind from birth might possess their own equivalent of “blindsight”. Ways of intuiting the world around them that those fully sighted can’t even begin to grasp. Or even imagine.

A “fractured” consciousness. Though one embedded more in the physiological/psychological components of I rather than in the manner which “I” am fractured in the is/ought world.">>>>>

leading to the inference that the focus of ‘sense deprivation’ has been reduced to a contextual reality that is more at home in the 'is, then the ‘ought’ world.

This particularization or deconstructed from a sky high generalization, may not carry the same degree of credibility as including sense deprivation in conjunction with dasein- and identity.

Why not? Is a question which may be forthcoming at this point. - Because it is generally held that a vastly larger part of sensory qualification of so called ‘objective’ inference derives from the sense of vision.( like the saying goes -seeing is believing)

That said, my inference from this point has been established, that within the intended objective of the forum, the more conventional ‘self image’ would probably raise less eye brows.

However I certainly not in the position to change anything that has been set in type, mean only to suggest that self image would be more appropriate.

If there is a study which can relate sensory deprivation in it’s most general sense, and there are those kinds of places which can create that kind of contextual reality, the question of furthering the latency of the relation between sensory deprivation, identity and dasein-will beg for clarification via connecting the patent description of the latency with in a compatible and continuous frame work

Certainly , blindness will plug holes in that continuous search for identifiable signs, signs which can re-present a continuity, much like running a file of almost identical still.

Without an impression of near flawless continuity,
the mind will tend to reject an authenticity with reality as projected, and create the existencial doubt of it’s adherence to ‘reality’

For these reasons, self image could form mode nominally credible succeeding representations, literally with a fairly good analogy between a motion picture camera’s projections and the introspective images of the camera within the human mind is capable of stimulating, by simulation of the two compatible systems of representations.

Now come the use as suggesting the identity and identification of such relresentations, in these correlated machines, where according to some , some magic occurs that van combine both sets of processes- into one.

They call it ‘sense data’ and suggest that such a procedure , that can combine into whole ‘sense-data’ because of some inherent and natural, preexisting tendency.

(The ability of cognitive joining of previously cut-off partially differentiated pictures, does make a functional gestalten- is a comfort to those disjointed states, who can not see this very important point)- please iambigious, do not read anything into the above parenthetical narratives, which I am merely notating to myself).

2. The identifiable signaling flowing from the previous 1. Self image, does and can flow fllawlessly into a higher level signal-signaling mode, where fewer and increasingly mire complex signals can entail more meaningful data, that can after a while develop into automatically apprehended and assumed response mechanisms that will again be denoted.

These identifiable denotations, may become irretrievable to certain minds , whose need tk go through the entire reconfirming mechanism from start to finish; which is left nowedays only to the superior memory capacity of AI to accomplish.

This leaves most of us in a limbo of uncertainty- very much like the quantum mechanical uncertainty se find ourselves today.

How these flow into dasein-is the last concern that is better left to another time.

[iambiguous]

@Meno_

So as I was treading along, ‘sense deprivation’( and relax, as I pointed the fact that contrary to parent imoression, I am on Your side);

amig says this:

"For some of course there is no ambiguity at all. If they were born blind as a result of medical/biological condition that no one doubts the existence of, there will no 80% accuracy. It would all be guesswork. But what of all the other ways in which those blind from birth might possess their own equivalent of “blindsight”. Ways of intuiting the world around them that those fully sighted can’t even begin to grasp. Or even imagine.

A “fractured” consciousness. Though one embedded more in the physiological/psychological components of I rather than in the manner which “I” am fractured in the is/ought world.">>>>>

leading to the inference that the focus of ‘sense deprivation’ has been reduced to a contextual reality that is more at home in the 'is, then the ‘ought’ world.

This particularization or deconstructed from a sky high generalization, may not carry the same degree of credibility as including sense deprivation in conjunction with dasein- and identity.

Why not? Is a question which may be forthcoming at this point. - Because it is generally held that a vastly larger part of sensory qualification of so called ‘objective’ inference derives from the sense of vision.( like the saying goes -seeing is believing)

That said, my inference from this point has been established, that within the intended objective of the forum, the more conventional ‘self image’ would probably raise less eye brows.

However I certainly not in the position to change anything that has been set in type, mean only to suggest that self image would be more appropriate.

If there is a study which can relate sensory deprivation in it’s most general sense, and there are those kinds of places which can create that kind of contextual reality, the question of furthering the latency of the relation between sensory deprivation, identity and dasein-will beg for clarification via connecting the patent description of the latency with in a compatible and continuous frame work

Certainly , blindness will plug holes in that continuous search for identifiable signs, signs which can re-present a continuity, much like running a file of almost identical still.

Without an impression of near flawless continuity,
the mind will tend to reject an authenticity with reality as projected, and create the existencial doubt of it’s adherence to ‘reality’

For these reasons, self image could form mode nominally credible succeeding representations, literally with a fairly good analogy between a motion picture camera’s projections and the introspective images of the camera within the human mind is capable of stimulating, by simulation of the two compatible systems of representations.

Now come the use as suggesting the identity and identification of such relresentations, in these correlated machines, where according to some , some magic occurs that van combine both sets of processes- into one.

They call it ‘sense data’ and suggest that such a procedure , that can combine into whole ‘sense-data’ because of some inherent and natural, preexisting tendency.

(The ability of cognitive joining of previously cut-off partially differentiated pictures, does make a functional gestalten- is a comfort to those disjointed states, who can not see this very important point)- please iambigious, do not read anything into the above parenthetical narratives, which I am merely notating to myself).

2. The identifiable signaling flowing from the previous 1. Self image, does and can flow fllawlessly into a higher level signal-signaling mode, where fewer and increasingly mire complex signals can entail more meaningful data, that can after a while develop into automatically apprehended and assumed response mechanisms that will again be denoted.

These identifiable denotations, may become irretrievable to certain minds , whose need tk go through the entire reconfirming mechanism from start to finish; which is left nowedays only to the superior memory capacity of AI to accomplish.

This leaves most of us in a limbo of uncertainty- very much like the quantum mechanical uncertainty se find ourselves today.

How these flow into dasein-is the last concern that is better left to another time.

Note to Alan Sokal:

Consider yourself challenged!

[Meno2 (Meno_)]

@iambiguous

@Meno_

So as I was treading along, ‘sense deprivation’( and relax, as I pointed the fact that contrary to parent imoression, I am on Your side);

amig says this:

"For some of course there is no ambiguity at all. If they were born blind as a result of medical/biological condition that no one doubts the existence of, there will no 80% accuracy. It would all be guesswork. But what of all the other ways in which those blind from birth might possess their own equivalent of “blindsight”. Ways of intuiting the world around them that those fully sighted can’t even begin to grasp. Or even imagine.

A “fractured” consciousness. Though one embedded more in the physiological/psychological components of I rather than in the manner which “I” am fractured in the is/ought world.">>>>>

leading to the inference that the focus of ‘sense deprivation’ has been reduced to a contextual reality that is more at home in the 'is, then the ‘ought’ world.

This particularization or deconstructed from a sky high generalization, may not carry the same degree of credibility as including sense deprivation in conjunction with dasein- and identity.

Why not? Is a question which may be forthcoming at this point. - Because it is generally held that a vastly larger part of sensory qualification of so called ‘objective’ inference derives from the sense of vision.( like the saying goes -seeing is believing)

That said, my inference from this point has been established, that within the intended objective of the forum, the more conventional ‘self image’ would probably raise less eye brows.

However I certainly not in the position to change anything that has been set in type, mean only to suggest that self image would be more appropriate.

If there is a study which can relate sensory deprivation in it’s most general sense, and there are those kinds of places which can create that kind of contextual reality, the question of furthering the latency of the relation between sensory deprivation, identity and dasein-will beg for clarification via connecting the patent description of the latency with in a compatible and continuous frame work

Certainly , blindness will plug holes in that continuous search for identifiable signs, signs which can re-present a continuity, much like running a file of almost identical still.

Without an impression of near flawless continuity,
the mind will tend to reject an authenticity with reality as projected, and create the existencial doubt of it’s adherence to ‘reality’

For these reasons, self image could form mode nominally credible succeeding representations, literally with a fairly good analogy between a motion picture camera’s projections and the introspective images of the camera within the human mind is capable of stimulating, by simulation of the two compatible systems of representations.

Now come the use as suggesting the identity and identification of such relresentations, in these correlated machines, where according to some , some magic occurs that van combine both sets of processes- into one.

They call it ‘sense data’ and suggest that such a procedure , that can combine into whole ‘sense-data’ because of some inherent and natural, preexisting tendency.

(The ability of cognitive joining of previously cut-off partially differentiated pictures, does make a functional gestalten- is a comfort to those disjointed states, who can not see this very important point)- please iambigious, do not read anything into the above parenthetical narratives, which I am merely notating to myself).

2. The identifiable signaling flowing from the previous 1. Self image, does and can flow fllawlessly into a higher level signal-signaling mode, where fewer and increasingly mire complex signals can entail more meaningful data, that can after a while develop into automatically apprehended and assumed response mechanisms that will again be denoted.

These identifiable denotations, may become irretrievable to certain minds , whose need tk go through the entire reconfirming mechanism from start to finish; which is left nowedays only to the superior memory capacity of AI to accomplish.

This leaves most of us in a limbo of uncertainty- very much like the quantum mechanical uncertainty se find ourselves today.

How these flow into dasein-is the last concern that is better left to another time.

Note to Alan Sokal:

Consider yourself challenged!

1. On what grounds? For certain grounds or reasons for un-grade have to be established, for
   certainly a middle grounded assumptive identification of me as Sokol, is not acceptable on it’s face.
   2.?

3?

If above 3 is clarified, I accept the challenge.

Rules like those of formal debate should apply, otherwise the track may suffer loss.

[iambiguous]

@Meno_

[

1. On what grounds? For certain grounds or reasons for un-grade have to be established, for
   certainly a middle grounded assumptive identification of me as Sokol, is not acceptable on it’s face.
   2.?

3?

If above 3 is clarified, I accept the challenge.

Rules like those of formal debate should apply, otherwise the track may suffer loss.

And then it’s turtles all the way down.

[Meno2 (Meno_)]

Seriously, we can, even without rules, get into turtles all the way down.

For example, this:

“Christopher Janaway’s Schopenhauer: A Very Short Introduction (Oxford University Press) as ‘J’; Jonathan Schooler’s paper “Re-representing consciousness: dissociations between experience and meta-consciousness” (Trends in Cognitive Science, Vol. 6, No.”

I may appear to pull things out of a hat. , but it could be exciting to find general criteria to pul l the ‘fractures’ together. The above is a reference to Schopenhauer’s notion of will, through Nietzchean nihilism arriving through the intentionality of Heidegger-to find where we are today.

A free flowing excercise, can locate some of the prepossessing ideas of latent structures embedded in the two fold description of Dasein- by Heidegger. I am sure the turtles wouldn’t mind if we don’t.

[Meno2 (Meno_)]

@iambiguous

@Meno_

[

1. On what grounds? For certain grounds or reasons for un-grade have to be established, for
   certainly a middle grounded assumptive identification of me as Sokol, is not acceptable on it’s face.
   2.?

3?

If above 3 is clarified, I accept the challenge.

Rules like those of formal debate should apply, otherwise the track may suffer loss.

And then it’s turtles all the way down.

Ok. , anyway, we can engage, disengage, without further ado.

[iambiguous]

Can a Blind Person Be a Racist?
Osagie K. Obasogie
At the Scientific American website
Adapted from Blinded by Sight: Seeing Race through the Eyes of the Blind published in 2013

Th[e] gap in the scholarly literature and public discourse points to a fundamental assumption that we almost all make about race, its significance, and its salience. Race has been central to human relationships. Yet, there seems to be at least one thing that most people can agree upon: that race is, to a large extent, simply what is seen.

So, if, from birth, you were never able to see all the physical features that sighted people do in distinguishing between men and women of different races, what are you going to use to make that distinction. Touch? Sound? Smell? Note their behaviors and connect the dots between what people do and what you have been taught to believe about the stereotypes of those of different races.

Of course if you are born into a racist family and community you can be indoctrinated in any number of ways to follow in their racist footsteps. You just don’t see the differences.

There are surely many variables that inform individuals’ racial consciousness, such as religion, language, food, and culture. But race is primarily thought to be self-evidently known, in terms of reflecting the wide variation in humans’ outward appearance tied to ancestry and geographic origin such as skin color, hair texture, facial shapes, and other observable physical features. Thus, race is thought to be visually obvious; it is what you see, in terms of slotting visual engagements with human bodies into predefined categories of human difference, such as Black, White, and Asian.

Yes, and for those born blind these signals don’t exist at all. The self here is not evident at all to them. So, sure, to the extent that through the other senses they are able to make distinctions between those of different races [or those who embody a mixture of races] they can articulate how this becomes a part of their own views on race.

But the rest is not going to be all that different from sighted people. They will be indoctrinated as children to think about race or gender or sexual orientation or any number of other ways in which some insist on dividing up the world between “one of us” and “one of them”. And they will have experiences embodied in dasein that will either reinforce that indoctrination or will deconstruct it into oblivion allowing for a more autonomous assessment as an adult.

Then the part they come into contact with [or don’t] things pertaining to the science of race. What can be determined to either be or not to be in fact true objectively about racial distinctions. And here it would seem the blind can be just as more or less well-informed as the sighted.

Given the dominant role these visual cues play in giving coherence to social categories of race, it is widely thought that race can be no more salient or significant to someone who has never been able to see than the musical genius of Mozart or Jay-Z can be salient to someone who has never been able to hear. Therefore, one plausible explanation for why questions concerning blind people’s understanding of race have not been explored is that, from a sighted person’s perspective, the answer seems painfully obvious: blind people simply cannot appreciate racial distinctions and therefore do not have any real racial consciousness.

Here of course we can only take an assessment like this to those blind from birth and take in their individual reactions to it. What then can we conclude is the most reasonable frame of mind? In other words, one in which political prejudices are the least likely to creep in.