In the last decade, we’ve seen a huge increase in the use of the dual-stroked fish symbolizing Christianity. The fish symbol has become widely used on vehicles and signifies, like the lamb, Jesus, who told his disciple fisherman buddies to go “fish for men.” The strange thing is, the fish is becoming more visible than the cross. It gives me the impression that eventually Christianity may just abandon the cross, a symbol that signifies Christ’s death, for a symbol that signifies his teaching, the fish.
I think you are right. Everything has to evolve as time goes on… in some form or another. Nothing ever stays the same. There are always changes being made, always emports and deports, converts, deconverts, reverts, and unstability. Even in all religion, things never stay the same. Everything in doctrine is constantly being put under the eye of speculation and questioning.
Yes, eventually, the cross probably will vanish as a symbol for Christianity. I myself have noticed this very same thing. When you go to a Catholic Church, you see crucifixes and crosses everywhere, and it annoys the shit out of you. You go into some Protestant churches, you start to indeed see the fish… and even on Catholic’s cars, the fish is being more apparent than the cross.
And there will come a time when the fish itself will change. Either by then, Christianity will be pretty much a dead-religion (which will be sooner than you think), or it’s doctrines will have changed immensly. We will have to stick around and see. It will probably be this generation’s lifetime.
The cross isn’t exactly signifying death, but rather the overcoming of death in the resurection. I believe that might be why Protestant Churches use a Cross rather than a Crucifix (focus on the risen Christ rather than the dead), but I could easily be making that up. With regards to that I don’t see how the cross would ever stop being used, as it is the primary symbol of the primary tenet of most mainstream Christian (the resurrection of Jesus)
Great reply there Bob, your points remind me about the Zodiacal Ages. Right now, we’re in the dying Pisces Age, which will be followed by the Age of Aquarius. The transition between these two has already begun as we start seeing science and technology take greater precedence over religious thinking. It is within the next 200 years that the Age of Pisces will be totally dead.
The interesting point is, it makes so much sense. The Age of Pisces started roughly about 2000 years ago, marking the start of the Xtian movement which made a repetitive use of the fish. Xtianity certainly falls in line with the Piscean ideal, concerning itself with the dream of etheral eternity and an apparent rejection of reality, taking blind faith instead of clear logic.
The Christian Cross was not originally “Christian” anyway. It was used by the Egyptians (with the Ankh) as a sign of fertility, but the Christians took out the loop. It was also used by the Hindus and Buddhists in India, China, all the way to the Persians and Assyrians. It “ante-dates” Christianity as a whole. Let us bear in mind, too, that though the Nature Worship of our remote ancestors had other striking features with symbols. They also had a cross that represented “The Life Force of the Universe”–
Christianity basically “borrowed” many of these ideas and concepts, especially with Constantine’s reign.
You know, they actually did crucify people on crosses when Christianity was founded, and according to certain obscure ancient writings, a Guy pretty central to the Christian faith was Himself crucified, so maybe, just [i]maybe[/i], the symbol of the Christian cross was derived from...oh, nevermind. It's complex.
Neither symbol should make a difference since Jesus said to love all words so that each symbol and word represents Love. matthew 5:43-48.
"For wisdom’s sake, a word that all men love,
Or for Love’s sake, a word that loves all men,
Or for men’s sake, the authors of these women,
Or women’s sake, by whom we men are men,
Let us once lose our oaths to find ourselves,
Or else we lose ourselves to keep our oaths.
It is religion of Love to be thus forsworn,
For Love itself fulfills the Law of Love,
And who can sever Love from Love? "
LOVE’S LABOURS LOST, Act 4, Scene 3
But in our mostly-hating world, the fish as a sign of food for life and death is more easily seen as a symbol of Love than the death and life that the cross signifies.
Ecclesiastes 9
12 For man also knoweth not his TIME:
as the fishes that are taken in an evil net,
and as the birds that are caught in the snare;
so are the sons of men snared in an evil time,
when it falleth suddenly upon them.
Actually, when you research Xianity, you find that in the birthing years before the Council of Nicea, Xtianity had the priest symbol…basically a P with an X crossed through the lower half of the letter.
For centuries before Xtianity, the Roman Empire crucified thousands on T shaped crucifixes. The actual chance that the T evolved into a †during the time of the writing of the Bible is purely circumstancial. In fact, it’s more than possible to conclude that the “cross” as referred was actually the T.
You mean like in Conan: The Barbarian when Arnold was strapped up to the Tree of Woe? Cool.
I think you still have a lot of love to go around…
It could be so. But, even if the best-known Christian symbol of today was the 'T', there'd still be ill-researched websites pointing out how some other pagan faith used a 'T' at some point in their worship, and there'd still be people assuming that there's some meaningful connection. Heck, there'd probably still be pointing out the 'disturbing similarities' between 'T's and anks. My point was, there's solid reasoning internal to the tenets of the faith why a cross would be an important symbol to Christianity- to try to tie that symbol in with paganism is just blind reaching on the part of someone with an agenda. As you've already pointed out, the cross wasn't even the most popular symbol of Christianity during it's formative period.
That doesn’t surprise me at all, (I knew about the tree crucifixion) Alot of what is considered christian was taken from egyptian religion, like bowing to the sun god and closing your eyes. (amen indeed!).
Should the cross be abandoned? no, it’s just as much an idol as the fish. So you either believe in the unerrable word of god (as a christian) and say to yourself that “you don’t worship the cross” (which you do.) or that “the old testament was invalidated by christ, and god doesn’t think that anymore”, or “It’s only talking about symbols to false gods, see they made cherubim idols for YHWH.”
