Sick and tired of forever bailing out Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland with never ending cash handouts and getting little in return but hostility, there is a growing movement for jettisoning them and going it alone. Is this a good thing?
So, being part of the EU is a problem, but a one world government would be OK? How did you determine this?
I don’t necessarily agree with a one world government. I was asking the question whether it would be a good idea.
OK, but it seemed like you thought concerns about a one world government were silly or at least fighting the inevitable. Couldn’t a very similar post to your OP in the one world government thread have been presented to the UK citizens before entry to the UK? This is part of a trend in history, it is inevitable. Hopefully it will end war, and so on.
So in that instance that argument would be used to push the UK into the EU just as now that and similar argument are acting as justification for merging into regions (like the EU) and finally into a one world government.
I’m not talking about the EU here, but the UK. England set up the UK but now there are some that want to leave it.
Depends, if England leaves, I don’t see a procedure in the 1931 Statute of Westminster for it to remain part of the Commonwealth. It be like Ireland, immediately booted from the Commonwealth (not that Ireland gave a damn).
This will most definitely hurt England’s GDP. Your ability to fund and maintain a army will be crippled, and your best properties would be owned by a foreign monarchy. Everyone would be essentially paying rent to the old monarch and it’s extended family, enjoying full regal rights over in Wales and Scotland. What makes it worst is, Wales and Scotland would have ample military reserves, having moved most mitary supplies out of the UK. They’ve been looking for a excuse to get back at England for over 500 years, don’t you think for a second they won’t take it.
All the many laws and treaties designed for the UK would cease to apply, rights to even fishing treatises would be denied as Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland would reap the benefits.
Lastly… it’s illegal. Thats right, it’s illegal under the law to even propose this:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treason_Felony_Act_1848
See, what your proposing isn’t republicanism persay, but rather the cessation of crown authority over England, which a succession by default does… even if the intent is to immediately reapply, thanks to the Statues of West Minister.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute … nster_1931
I’ve read some of the more recent analysis of this, it is indeed a human rights violation to advocate peacefully a change of a form of government under the treaty signed by the UK, and your courts off handed, but not officially declared it so, but this wouldn’t qualify. This would be a act of succession independent of, at legal and constitutional odds against Parliament and the King, and against the concept of Parlimentry Supremacy, which ultimately was what caused the American Revolution.
Just like Gorbachev shooting people right before the collapse of the USSR and getting away with it as head of state, the Queen would be in full rights to leap off of Buckingham Palace with a samurai sword and start slashing at the betrayal of the revolutionary hordes below. She can declare military law, and just like the EU courts yesterday ruled against lifting the military curfews in southwestern Turkey, I suspect the Queen, who possesses full war making powers to this day, will get off Scotfree if she decided to hang the whole lot of you in the Tower of London… might even gain higher dupport and approval for the Monarchy in polls in some of the far reaches of the UK…
Nope, I just don’t think it’s possible. Sorry, you we’re late for the 1776 train ride out, missed the Irish, Indian, and South African jump out. I’m afraid England is stuck being England for the time being.
But what you can do, if form a local, powerless, House of Burgess, where local intellectuals and business giants meet, get the Queen to join it, collect a voluntary tax from English members to build a parlimentry-esque building, and gain influence. If the Queen isn’t threatened by it, even the head of it, and it’s more or less functioning like a local parliment, you can do like what Israel does with the PA, and request greater degrees of funding for English only projects sent to it after approval by the Big Daddy Parliament, as well rights for English only laws be sent for refinement.
Once the Big Daddy Parliament is convinced, to the satisfaction of the Welsh, Score, and Irish, that England is component and can stand on IRS own, then maybe they can establish a separate, local Parliament for the little people who live in the South-East of the UK.
Maybe… but doubtful.
The difference is that the New World Order is abstract and perfectly idealized, while the problems of dealing with other countries and people in the UK or EU are real and felt on a daily basis.
Therefore, it is easy to support one kind of union and to reject another.
My mistake. Though I got the impression you did want the UK to leave EU and now, yes, here you want England to leave the UK. It seems wonder why people are negative about coming under one world government, but in practice, you already have resistence to this same trend at smaller levels. Wouldn’t your own experiences as an English person, with her critique of what happens to England in the UK, which you focus on here, and the UK in EU, which I think you have commented on elsewhere, lead you to also be skeptical/concerned/negative about England being subsumed under one world government???
Sooooo…
First, we have England conquering all kinds of other countries that put up very expensive resistance: much loss of life, limb, property, prosperity and great unhappiness on all sides. Then we have an England that prides itself on a strong, united empire… until the original countries start reasserting their identities, whereupon England bloodily suppresses rebellion wherever it can; surrenders colonies where it must, both with very bad grace and much loss of life, etc. Then we have an England resigned to being the center of a commonwealth, a trade arrangement from which it still profits - not to mention gets huge amounts of military help (with great loss of life, etc - as usual), but is gradually reduced the islands of Great Britain - which isn’t all that great anymore - and then the United Kingdom - which isn’t all that united, since both Ireland and Scotland are still putting up a resistance (and Wales has never been properly conquered). Eventually, we have an England groaning under the consequences of its own past glory, crying sour grapes.
Should such and England “go it alone”? Sure… Only, Where’s it gonna go?
Over the long term, yes, tribes will probably all separate out. The EU is breaking up; so is the Russian federation; Africa is fragmenting; the USA is a very long way from being united states in any practical way. The general unravelling will probably continue through the economic collapse and climate wars. What happens after depends on how many survive and where.
Moreno, why would this stump you if your American? We have a pluralistic balance of powers on a tiered system, local, county, state, national, and international (UN, NATO, bunch if other organizations).
You can be both a cosmopolitan, and assert regional rights. You can evoke a brotherhood of man, and also a right to individuality. Its like your absolute insistance that all arguments against abortion had to be on religious grounds. I don’t recall anyone doing so, I don’t argue it on that basis, it’s a good coincidence my church does (which allows me to tap into a larger identity, gives me access and notice to philosophers I never otherwise would consider), but I most certainly wasn’t arguing it on the basis of Christianity. Its just coincidental it matches up, I wasn’t ever lectured by the church on the topic.
Same here. If she is for or against unity on one level, but not for or against it on anither level isn’t backwards, or odd, except for you. You fail to allow human complexity to others, we all have to fit into categorical schemes, once in place, set forever like automata, lacking relevancy.
Any person is capable of breaking out of the very, very thin barrier of YOUR restrictive understanding of how they should think.
Its a absolutely fantastic rhetorical device to place people into strict, overbearing categories that fits them to large degree, but not always, showing them to be hypocritical… I do it a lot, I take labels people wear proudly and press them aggressively to see how they snap. I don’t think you do this though, you seem not to be saying these things to force a dialectic movement tactically, to deepen the depth of the debate into areas people otherwise would resist moving into, but because you actually believe we are mono-dimensional. You never do follow up, you state, then it’s a conspiracy, as if some point was proven.
You gotta recognize mist everyone (save Magsj) on this forum is human, complex, and unknowingly accepting of aspects of both sides of a argument. Using the Socratic method involves more than merely pointing out people are odd or wrong, and your right in opposing a imaginary machine, but in gradually pushing them to examine issues they are absolutely entrenched against, impossible to approach in good mannered company. Some, it’s rather simple, they are strong enough to handle a investigation and even a refutation of their beliefs, others are pigheaded egoists, but rather shallow in what they actually believe. You gotta practically drag them through a exorcism before they are ready to do the basics of honest dialogue and inward consideration. I think I would have to hold Donald Trump in a headlock for three days giving him nuggies, denying him sleep and water before he would let his defences down. (I have zero Intention or desire to do so, nor advocate it, and think the secret service us a fine institution, and I love cops).
You just chalk it up to irrationalism and conspiracy, we must fit your system, you don’t seem to question your own prejudice, that is that. Whats the point ofyour hanging out on a philosophy forum if your not going to challenge your own philosophy, or put your skills to good use with others.
Every time I curse on this forum, it’s a public service announcement, pure charity.
The whole world thinks that England is an endless money pot.
I thought Wales and NI were still in with the whole UK identity Maia? but opinions and wants change so fast these days.