bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35620821
A bit late on this one, 1776 came and past…
But none the less, I suppose the question should be asked:
Should the UK be a independent state, or should it continue in foreign servitude to a distant and uncaring sovereign power?
It is not a binary issue, but are there countries anymore?
It seems like there are International organizations and corporations. If they are not directly making the laws and choosing foreign policy, then are doing it through lobbying, pr, their media, their ‘research’ and their candidates.
The UK pulling out of the EU would hardly make for a country. It is already made up of a number of countries. Would it mean that individual citizens in the UK would have more influence? Perhaps. Though very short term and the above mentioned organizations would have tactics to deal with this. And would an independent UK be independent from the US? Hardly. I don’t just mean dependent militarily, but as in could somehow make decisions its ally, or really the primary carryouter of corporate interests in the world, disagreed with that mattered in any way`.
And then given the Orwellian levels of surveillance already present in the UK, the influence of THE CITY I can’t imagine a groundswell of freedom or independence swelling up there.
I would support its secession. I mean, the trend is correct. But even that framing of the issue is as if power is not already globalized. It would be more like a reorganization of one subsidiary in a corporate group than a secession from any corporate group. The playmakers would have to play a different game to get their policies and actions through.
It’s like if a character in a play, decides to leave that play and be in another one. It’s a character. A hallucination. And as postmodern aesthetically as it is to move a character from a play, to let’s say a TV series, we are just shifting around unreal conceptions.
All will be assimilated into the European Union the military and banking prison bitch of the United States. There shall be no exceptions.
People who want ‘independence’ here, are usually doing it for selfish reasons. They don’t want europe to have a say over human rights, but do you think that ever means britain will have more or better human rights? No, it just means the the rich pay less tax and we have a far worse society. Still, that doesn’t matter as the rich have better things to do with their money, like investing and buying more classic cars for their museum sized collections. Oh wait, I have better things to do with my money too, and when I am not spending it [investing in the economy] my money is in the bank and they are spending it/investing it. In fact no one should pay tax because we are all investing it lol.
The people who will suffer most from opting out of Europe aren’t immigrants [although they inevitably will too], but ordinary british people who will get tax credit cuts and other benefits e.g. the mentally ill. As I see it and I have seen first hand how our system works, those who are of the ‘i’m alright jack’ brigade, would much rather cut benefits and force people into jobs which aren’t suited to them. Hell why not take it back to like victorian times, with a society of princes and beggars [which world over is a bit like that anyhow].
If you are pro american independence [which I am] I don’t know how you could then be on the side you were fighting!? Because that’s who the tories are, the royalists and not roundheads, explotists and not socialists etc. the way I see it half of britain was the half which some moved to america and they are the ones most against those british. There was and is two britains, so which side are you americans on?
now I will have a beer and drink three cheers to Washington [and maybe Cromwell into the bargain] , if only there were more like him!
The Brits are perfectly free to choose enslavement, it was what they fought for in The Revolutionary War, so it seems inevitable. But they are also free to drag out their integration into The Borg. Cause they got a Channel. Ireland doesn’t mind the even greater distance, but the UK has a miniditch, and that makes all the difference.
It makes little difference with a train line running straight under the channel. Not to mention the movement of money being electronic etc.
enslavement for us brits IS the other brits! Since the normans there has been and still is a ruling invading elite. As an american perhaps you are not seeing it so clearly? ~ that we are or were like you, well half of us that is. On the other hand, perhaps americans are nowadays more akin to the faction they fought!
Naw, I know the US fought to enforce conservative values in the colonies that was increasingly being stripped from us. It was very demeaning and insulting to take a free and equal population of direct descent and incrementally inform them of their enslavement and loss of rights. It is why we never gave up our guns.
But England is different, it resides on the other side of the salty sea, so Dasein and shit operates differently, from what I’ve been told. Has something to do with the jet stream going right over England or something.
So consider this, without your ties to these groups, you wouldn’t have the glorious history of being part of the British Empire. The thing that ties everyone from Pakistan to Nigeria to your homeland is that Empire. You guys wore a lot of cool hats, and fancy jackets, and said stuff like “The Sun Doesn’t Set on the British Empire”. Now, the imperial feeling is continuously rekindled with the migrants in Calais, it shows the imperial spirit is still alive and well overseas. Your still able to attract people from around the world!
Also, you have many fine castles, of negligible defensive value. They are occupied by families only superficially more intelligent than the average Brit, because they could dump massive amounts of money on slightly better education and travel a bit farther for opportunities. This, coupled with their inheritance, gives them the right to be called lords, and March around in Archaic costumes on days other than Halloween, allowing everyone to marvel in their majestic sense of style. Truly, these people have the right to affirmative action, and seats in the House of Lords, do they not? It isn’t a silly pompous custom at all, and your quite right for not questioning it, as it is the natural order if things. Its not like England was ever a revolutionary republic under Cromwell… the order of things as they are currently are quite right, quite proper, quite natural. Just shut up and pay your taxes, and don’t mention the Jacobites ever.
I agree with the colonists position, but conservative values? Did they not understand how such people think? It is demeaning irrespective of descent, and the British aristocracy didn’t give such freedoms to everyone or any but their own, even some English cities [e.g. Birmingham if I remember correctly] didn’t have representation. Secondly you guys WERE those people to them! You were the minority religious and politically alternatives, who moved from Britain to America to attain freedoms you couldn’t get here ~ like most of us. For me it all started with the peasant revolt, then the English civil war [After which the monarchy was restored ~ inciting an exodus of the disenfranchised] followed by the American revolution.
Having an ocean between us perhaps didn’t mean that much culturally, it just made it too expensive for the British to maintain an invasion force [or you guys would have lost [consider 1812]].
Yes because through that empire we forged and kept many business links, so we profit from the world [e.g. 60% of the worlds money goes through the city of London financial district, which is virtually an autonomous state]. Money is power and stability arises from that, the migrants only want to come to this rainy overpopulated shithole, because it is safer and wealthier.
I have some personal experience of this, as my grandmother was a nanny to lord Aster, who lives in a vast estate [and has vast estates in america]. When she died he and his family came to and organised her funeral, and guess who was sat at the back [ushered to], yes us, her own blood. Those castles were built mostly to keep local populations down and to enforce serfdom!
Me not question the house of lords! …and yes I agree we never had but needed a full revolution.
No… it came as a shock. We were very incensed, for some fucking reason thought 1689 (Dutch occupation) was in force for all British, like New Zealand, it came off as a condescending surprise to discover we somehow lost our Britishhood.
We went through all that, it is what made the US what it is today.
When I look at the history of England, it starts morphing into something alien and hostile at this point. Last British monarchs we really had universal attachment to was Charles II, universal after that it was each religious sect backing whom they cared for… war did come to the western hemisphere, and we did contribute a substantial portion of our population here and there in the Isles to the blasted war.
Prior to that, Mary and later Elizabeth had a influence in forming the colonies, sending out exploration fleets. At some point, England just became a bunch of asinine little twats who increasingly became our enemy. The crown started the war during Lord Dunmore’s War, Parliament had already goaded everyone on with absurdities they themselves never would of accepted.
But that’s America. We don’t accept stuff like that, we fight back, however in descent. Its why Trump and Sanders are doing so well. England is more than likely just going to get down on it’s knees and accept the EU Borg Cock into it’s mouth… Resistance is Futile. You can take the Union Jack afterwards and wipe yourself off. From my understanding, that’s how the white spots got on the Australian Flag.
Yeah in the end they’ll have something like a united states of europe and we would never accept a united states. And we sure as shit would never accept NAFTA or the WTO. We would never let international corporations buy politicians as a rule. We would never let international banks and corporations decide when we would go to war and who should lead us. We are a smart freedom loving people. We will always demand that we can choose between at least two types of fast food and two types of sneakers. We are pro-choice and have the store assortments to prove it. Britain is a bitch. Cause it follows the lead of our following corporate interests first, the sissies.
You gave up on America when you converted to Europe. You have no say in the matter anymore. Go run naked on some Baltic beach with the EU flag trailing behind you like a cape.
Murica. (Trademark Inc.)