Should there be a law against public institutions that lie f

Should there be a law against public institutions that lie for money?

Religions and many charitable organizations of all stripes make their revenues by lying to people.

youtube.com/watch?v=mJ9oBCLwwL0

dailymail.co.uk/news/article … endas.html

Should we help protect the gullible by eliminating all the fraud that is being passed off as religion and charity?

Those who do not believe the lies being sold by religions and charities are presently subsidize the tax exemptions and credits that religions and charities enjoy. What they save in taxes, non-believers and those who actually want to give to charities must fork up.

I am not what most would call a non-believer, I am a Gnostic Christian, but still resent my hard earned tax money being used to perpetuate what most know are lies. If you are a non-believer, or one who wants your charitable donations to actually be used for charity, I hope you feel the same and do not like being fleeced the way the gullible are.

There ought to be a law against institution like religions and bogus charities that live off of lying to the gullible.

washingtonpost.com/blogs/won … on-a-year/

Do you agree?

Regards
DL

Okay, let me get this straight. You want to make a law. Laws are enforced by the institution.

You want the institution, which you don’t trust, to make a law, telling itself not to lie?

There’s already laws to prosecute charitable organizations misrepresenting what they do with their funds.

cbsnews.com/news/education-c … -of-funds/

The obvious problem… If your a somewhat Orthodox Gnostic, then EVERYTHING material is a lie… therefore any institution trying to uphold the common good in persecuting liars would be actually upholding a insane system to begin with. I font see a obvious Gnostic fix to this, short of doing what Iran does (Gnostic Shia state) with its Martyrs Brigade.

But of course you don’t want THAT, but unless you show me that a inspector general is in a position to tell universally truth from falsehood, we are fucked as a society.

Reason why is “mission creep”. Its not quite the same as a slippery slop argument, but share some of the mechanics… mission creep deals with organizations that start out with a kind of task at hand… undoubtedly noble intentioned, self contained ideologically, and not intending to do mischief, and then start hitting operational friction, and realize to get from point A to B, C has to be dealt with, and in order to get C, D and E, and F then undermines A, C, and E, so one, till it has nothing with going from A to B, your in your X, Y, and Zs.

When this happens over multiple generations, the new generations have an excuse to bias, as they can claim they are following a tradition, and it worked in the past. The restraints are increasingly removed, as they are found to be a logical hindrance… which is correct, they were put there to stop this very activity.

You your proposing a system, yet admit in proposing it, you have yourself a theological outlook that typically treats everything as deceitful. You system makes sense to you, doesn’t seem related perhaps, but you haven’t explained to non-gnostics how this isn’t merely a means to subvert their faith in favor of yours, and how the more draconian possibilities (Iranian Gnostic Martyr Brigades) won’t pop up in the future. You also failed to show that the tax exemption isn’t beneficial to society, you merely showed your distrust of it, as a kind of pet peeve. Objectively, can you show the wisdom via statistics that atheist charities outperform religious charities? We are talking about handing out clothes, food cards for stores, help with heating during winter, senior activities, religious hospitals, international relief funds. Is your average pill popping atheist doing these kinds of things, or are they just looking out for themselves, and aiding in the social deterioration of society?

Furthermore, does attacking churches financially result in a lower crime rate? Or higher? Lower or higher education?

I want to point out that synagogues and catholic churches fall under these exemptions too, and the current members of the supreme court all belong to those two religions… not a Atheist amongst them. If we get rid of the churches, and secularise along Dutch and British lines, it seems like we would have to stupify our standards even more for appointing high court officials… not much stopped a brilliant atheist from rising to the court, just we had none apparently. These two religions encourage private study and intellectualism in their community. We undermine them, we enter into a even dumber era, as we gotta rely on the B Team to do the deep thinking, which is scary.

I’m hooking you up, as a Gnostic Christian, with a video by a Gnostic Shia Imam in London, only the beginning prayer is in a foreign language, the rest is in English… discovered he was a excellent public speaker, and remarkably open intelkectually despite his background, recommend watching it before you press my claims. He talks about how a Mosque Intellectually and Socially should ideally operate. In a pluralistic society, its good to remember multiple institutions, not just the government, are responsible with pursuing and maintaining the public good. No one forces you to go to Church, Temple, or Mosque… a few of them are rotten, but most manifestly good for society, and good for the individual. If your not aware of this, its because you haven’t been looking.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=QmAYB5axFt0

(Yes, it is in English, he just likes his foreign language prayers. )

Where do I indicate they should judge themselves?

Regards
DL

Yes but it is not enforced or we would not have all the churches and mosques around that make a living from lying to the gullible nor the thousands of charities that only serve themselves.

The law has to show it’s teeth. It is mostly looking at taxes at present and not the morality of the fraud taking place. It is the fraud laws that need enforcing as well as the tax laws.

Yours is a good example but is only a drop in the bucket. Look at my last link again.

Regards
DL

That is a really old, deceptive and untrue statement. Most misunderstand how Gnostic Christians came to be branded with that foolish notion.

How can we hate the physical when it houses a spark of God and is a part of God’s kingdom?

In a nutshell, here is what is closer to what we believe.

Jesus said, “If those who attract you say, ‘See, the Kingdom is in the sky,’ then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, ‘It is under the earth,’ then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty.”

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand. That is an irrefutable statement.

youtube.com/watch?v=NOGEyBe … r_embedded


You seem to indicate that authorities cannot judge truth from lies by religions.

They did in the I.D. trials and can do so again. The secular tends to be more intelligent than the religious. At least that is what most statistics show so it is the duty of the secular to protect the gullible from religions.

Regards
DL

I wanted to answer this briefly.

Less religion generally produce lower crime rates. The U.S., a Christian nation, has the highest per capita incarceration stats in the world. The abortion rate is also one of the highest.

Religions, via political influence are also responsible for the dumbing down of the U.S. intelligence levels. It was once # 1 but is now backsliding badly and it will get worse if religions have their way.

youtube.com/watch?v=1dtC052f9A4

Regards
DL

Its hardly deceptive or a lie… it is the classical gnostic line.

I don’t want your location, but can you tell me your precise gnostic denomination, or which texts you follow? You obviously use the name, but even in classical gnosticism, there is a considerable amount of variety, but your suggesting something else. Not saying its not of a tradition, but it be a lot easier if you tell me what it is in terms of denomination or text than to assure me. Most gnostics I’ve met in California and Pittsburgh were quite hostile to the material world, due to their Platonism and Neo-Pythagorean roots.

And no, less religion doesn’t produce less crime, as that’s hardly a cause. Monocultures isolated from wars, low population, and easy access to dependable resources produces this… for example, Alaska is very similar to Scandinavia in terms of crime rate, and is highly religious, and the US and Norway have similar rates of recidivism.

I did research on the Scandinavian penal systems a while back, the warden of the super friendly prison up there (can’t recall the name, will look for the link in my next post) was the one to caution the statistics that their prison was anymore successful… it held similar rates for recidivism, and they arrested and trued people for different kinds of crimes. He was very cautious backing the general concensus that their system was qualitively more successful, and instead put foreward the idea it was valid on the quality of civilization.

The areas in the US most hit by crime are in formerly liberal, industrial rustbelts. We had the industrial base yanked under us under Clinton. My town went from having the world’s largest steel mill to the largest concentration of casinos, mostly in residential areas, and one year the state capital had raided 500 meth labs in its little city alone (West Virginia). We never had a complex economy, was labor organized, dependent upon the party. A lot of former Marxist in my town. It has gone the exact opposite out if disgust, and were on the uphill climb. Those very same highly secular Scandinavian states went into deep unionization like we did in the early 20th century. They are experiencing now a economic and intellectual decline. I see the same assurances on Swedish sites as I remember as a kid with the mills research lab, highly innovated, technologically advanced, investing more in more… but the population was already declining, economy was stagnating, and finally the employee owned still mill went bust. I see the same pattern there… even IKEA moved to the Netherlands. Nokia sold out (plans on coming back in 2016).

Similar with Japan, they are in the tail in of a bust cycle. You look at large tracks of the US, our crime rate is very low in comparison to Europe, save in some inner city areas.

So yeah… its not correct to assert this. Your just as safe in Alaska as in most of Scandinavia. More so actually, I don’t remember a single police chase shootout in Alaska in the middle of anchorage or fairbanks, but see that crap all the time in their news. Its similar climates, similar isolation. Just happened the Scandinavians declined.

There is also far less terrorism is the US than in secular Europe on the whole, or for that matter successfully targeted against us overseas when we go on vacations. We do have casualties, but not whole shiploads of tourists getting killed.

These aren’t aspects you can blame on religion. Other factors determine them. However, community stability is definitely a positive factor of religious institutions. I don’t want to sacrifice St. Jude Hospital or Catholic Charities, they save a lot of children’s lives and keep families afloat. The Salvation Army is a church. They don’t cause crime, and they do raise the intelligence rate of society, lots of countries lack such institutions and their people starve and die neglected, kids just die when they get sick.
Its our money, its our research, its our efforts.

Furthermore, statistically… since were on the topic, INTJs tend to have the highest IQs out there, but are also faith driven. Odd contradiction, isn’t it? Its not. We lead the pack, and still have room for religion. (Between the mid 90s to mid 2000s some typologists placed INTJs within INTPs, not realizing we operated in to hemispheres and our auxiliary functions differed. Its largely cleared up now, but loom at the date for the statistics).

Gonna go look for that link.

mobile.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/ma … ?referrer=

This is it. The stuff you need to read is towards the end of the article… Norway actually built its prison system from the US, back in the 60s (a even more religious society then).

Much of the US is safer in most categories of violent crime (save handgun deaths for obvious reasons) than Europe, its largely a few cities. The website City-data.com has several threads over there looking at the statistics with discussions, we tend to win tops down. Its only in the more socialist -liberal neighborhoods where it gets pretty dangerous.

Likewise, high wages has nothing to do with secularism, we have a high population of scandanavian immigrants in the Midwest. Back in the sixties or eighties the US Ambassador up there was informed it was because of the secularism, and he laughed saying their cousins in the US were still religious, and making the same amount. It was the work ethic.

Now… Work ethic is in obvious decline in Scandanavia.

That’s one possibility. Another possibility is that everything you write and everything you do is through the filter of “I hate organized religion”, and you’re presenting the situation as being much worse than it is.

FMPOV. You met Gnostics that have thoughtlessly accepted old beliefs that a modern Gnostic would discard.

All scriptures were written to enhance the seeking after God. None were intended to be taken literally and even some Gnostic Christians take the mentally lazy way out without remembering that Gnosis demand that we evolve our thinking along with the times.

I have no denomination because in Canada there are no Gnostic Churches. Here is a brief summary of what I sell and believe to be the best course for us to find the only God any of us can know. Ourselves.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers after God. God here I define as the best laws and rules to live life with.

We believe that those laws and rules, as Jesus said, are found in our minds/hearts. I use the following to try to illustrate this notion. A bit of history and then a mindset and method to do what I promote.

youtube.com/watch?v=oR02cia … =PLCBF574D

The thinking shown below is the Gnostic Christian’s goal as taught by Jesus but know that any belief can be internalized to activate your higher mind.

youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes … r_embedded

This method and mind set is how you become I am and brethren to Jesus, in the esoteric sense.

youtube.com/watch?v=FdSVl_HOo8Y

When you can name your God, I am, and mean yourself, you will begin to know the only God you will ever find. Becoming a God is to become more fully human and a brethren to Jesus.


Our comparing crime and incarceration rates etc, is way off topic and I will let statistics do my talking for me. Those are quite clear and easy for you to google.

Regards
DL

I am a religionist and do not hate all religions.

I hate liars and thieves and those who take advantage of the gullible.

Regards
DL

Wouldn’t that put an end to government?

I hear that self-hatred like that is a pain to endure.

Priests and imams do not seem particularly disturbed by their constant lying.

As to politicians. They are limited by an opposition and statistics. Churches and mosques have free reign to lie all they want.

Strange how you do not stick up for your own bunch of liars and do not deny that they lie.

Regards
DL

Regards
DL