I guess the reaction in Dar Al-Islam kind of proves his point doesn’t it?
Anyone else read the whole text?
Link?
I’ll google it but for everyone else maybe.
If my information is ‘correct.’ I’ve got nothing against the Pope. I have no stance to say what he said was uncalled for because look at all the beatings other religions get and we(I’m Christian) don’t make a fuss or threaten lives about it. Or at least, we ‘shouldn’t’ if we stick with our foundation. I understand some misrepresent, but at least the Bible can be open for scrutiny.
I just think people shouldn’t take it so seriously, it’s the Popes beliefs, of course hes going to be exclusive about another religion.
I think he should not have backed down on what he said. It was very right on and I think the Muslim people need to change in many ways. Islam used to be something of great beauty and now it is becoming something which is highly fear mongering the masses.
Have you listened to the news lately?
The war of civilizations?!
Many on ILP believes that we should nuke them.
I guess that is not like threatening lives!
You must read this.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/MosheSharon40214%20.htm
the pope is thee antichrist.
proof.
he has all the descriptions. One to ignore that would have to be plain stupid.
absolutely… it’s the same irony witnessed from the cartoons that criticized violence within Islam, and then they acted violently!
The question is will we wake up and start prodding them more on the issue?
ravencry4all:
Would you prefer they do that to us?
Osama and hezbollah and hamas, and Iran are ALL collecting daisy cutters and nukes… there’s talk that Al Qaeda is going to release a video telling all muslims it’s time to leave America.
so you’ll get you’re wish. America will be nuked and you can blame bush.
ABSOLUTELY.
are you all ready to begin chanting towards mecca as we grovel to the ground? I don’t think any of the political parties can save us at this point.
Do any of you (that aren’t already anti-american) disagree?
America need to back off from the Middle East, keep it’s clutches to iself, away from other peoples who want nothing to do with it’s degenerate, bloodthirsty ‘liberties’.
End of story.
You are talking as if America did not do anything and is completely innocent. America wants to be a super-power and it goes and fools-around in other countries but no one should do anything against you. I am not for violence and do not wish that anything should happen in America, but you need to understand that America is not innocent. You are seeing only the reaction and failing to realize why and what they are reacting to.
Well, after all the acting and reacting ad infinitum, one thing is clear: The Islamic extremists are touting world domination by conquest, and the structure of Islamic religion is incapable of controlling them. The extremists are but a small percentage of the muslim world, but they splash on all their brothers and sisters. There have been many genocidal pogroms since man came down out of the trees, but this is going to be a world-wide pogrom. Islam may have the fervor, but they haven’t the power, and that spells doom for muslims everywhere.
I find it absolutely amazing that the extremists can’t see the damage they are doing to their own religion. One “dirty bomb” anywhere in the western world, and there will be a forced exodus of muslims from every western country. You don’t think we could pass exclusionary laws based on religion? Guess again.
The last person who caused a great havoc to the West (and to the rest of the world) is Hitler. Everyone hated him and the Nazis. But to hate all the Germans, for what Hitler did, would be unfair. Even though, Hitler was elected by the Germans. Whereas in the case of terrorists, majority of the Muslims do not think of them as the best representatives of Islam. So, it would be unfair to hate all the Muslims or pass any exclusionary laws against them.
It is sadly true how these extremists do not see that they are making the lives of moderate Muslims in the West more difficult.
robo,
You’re absolutely right. Exclusionary laws wouldn’t be fair. Unfortunately, fair would have nothing to do with it. Ever read about the Japanese internment camps during WWII? Fear and outrage are powerful motivators, Such nicities as reason and fairness evaporate quickly.
Actually, the main danger from the middle east is not the rare extremists, it is the common extremists.
Every religion has its fair share of socio/psychopathic adherents. There is no escaping that, since there will always be deranged individuals looking for something to justify their obscene behaviour.
The problem with the Middle East is that what many would consider extremist ideologies have become very common place. I’m not talking about fundamentalism (a seperate, but very real problem), but rather the association of radical Islam as what is truly modern. People are looking towards radical imams for guidance more and more.
Yes, this is a reaction to imperialism both past and present, but the issue has become: what to do about it? You can’t say that most Germans were good people, it was just a few extremist Nazis that causes the mess from the early thirties to the mid-forties.
So, then the question is: what next? Scythe wants to force the extremists further into a corner (by what mechanisms I am still now sure). To me, that makes as much sense as yelling at a missionary – sure, it might seem to get them off your back for a little bit, but it justifies their actions and gives them strength to continue.
tent,
I understand that what I am talking is possible only in an ideal world. You are right. May be, I am more optimistic about the West that they would not do any such things like passing Exclusionary laws ( as the West respects human rights more than the rest of the world). I might be wrong. I am still believing that it is only the minority in the West that hates the whole community of Muslims for the barbaric acts committed by some among them.
This question is more rational than hating a whole religion or group of people.
I think that the West should not try to force their value system (democracy, human rights, freedom etc.,) on the Islamic world. I know I am suggesting something but I wish otherwise. But does anyone at ILP believe that you can convert someone here, by force? Sure, many of the Western values are wonderful but anything that is forced will be seen as bad. The West, instead of interfering with other countries’ internal affairs (I think this is one of the main reasons for the terrorism), they could prove that the Western values (like democracy, freedom etc.,) are the best by simply living them (like how the Western pop culture is being absorbed by the rest of the world although I am not sure whether it is good or bad). The change should come from within. When enough number of people in those Islamic countries realize this, they themselves will change the system.
Again, what I am saying here may be naive or Utopian. But I think it is a better solution than going after them and forcing them the Western values.
I agree, to an extent.
Forcing western values anywhere in the world just plain isn’t gonna work.
However, the two greatest turn-around cultures I’ve ever read about are post-WWII Japan and Germany.
Now, was it that they were beaten that caused the change, the marshall plan, or a combination?
Personally, I believe it was a combination of the two, but I see no reason why a marshall-type plan in the Middle East wouldn’t fix most of the problems we are presently facing.
Why did the Taliban hate the US so much? Perhaps because the US abandoned Afganistan after the Soviets left? Betrayal, what betrayal? Or what about propping up dictators? Or supporting reactionary governments? People in the middle east aren’t stupid, and they know that the US has anything but altruistic intents in the Middle East.
How to best beat them? Prove them wrong. And forced conversion ain’t gonna do it.
I say we pull away from them and let them be. We have interceded often in their history and still do this very day. They despise us for our interferance so I say we let them hurt themselves until they force themselves into a sort of cultural revolution. You cannot strike back at someone who has no face, as most the terrorists who do such acts are often killed in the act. Also when we cause death in their countries it creates a large target for them to attack us. But that is just my thoughts.