“Recent research surveyed by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, a governmental think tank for the rich nations, found that mobility in the United States is lower than in other industrial countries. One study found that mobility between generations — people doing better or worse than their parents — is weaker in America than in Denmark, Austria, Norway, Finland, Canada, Sweden, Germany, Spain and France. In America, there is more than a 40 percent chance that if a father is in the bottom fifth of the earnings’ distribution, his son will end up there, too. In Denmark, the equivalent odds are under 25 percent, and they are less than 30 percent in Britain.”
That just means the next generation is spoiled and lazy. It has nothing to do with the economics. Out of 6 kids all 6 of us make more than our father did. 10 kids in my husband’s family 7 make more than their father and their mother did. Our son at his age is making more than his father or I did at that age. The same goes for most nieces and nephews. Just blew those statistics to hell.
Look you want to get, you got to give. In other words. If you want to get comfy, you got to give your best and all to earn it. Otherwise you get peanuts instead of cashews. Kids learn from what their parents do and say. If a parent is content with their level or does not push for better, then the kid gets a message of doing the same.
The Gov’t has nothing to do with will and strength. And that is what it takes to achieve any goal or point. People have brains, they need to use the blasted things rather than let it get fried by banal entertainment.
While actual incomes go up, as well as quality of life, actual social class rarely does. Since wealth is always a relative thing (in the 1860s, chandeliers were an absolute must-have and a status symbol, a theater built in the 1890s had, of all things, a huge clock, to prevent people from flashing their pocketwatch-bling, none of these things carry the same meaning they once did, we now have different standards and measures of wealth) we can only measure it with respect to people’s place in society.
That is what doesn’t change. If the general progress of society is sufficient, then it doesn’t matter too much. However, those classes who are left out of the march of progress or whose mainstays have become obsolete (the poor and the new poor made by outsourcing) are pretty much screwed.
That is the real problem, because downtrodden classes turn to crime. Why wouldn’t they, after all? Clearly the system isn’t out the benefit them so why would they play by its rules? Before you know it, you get counter-cultural movements that glorify violence and crime as a means to get ahead and achieve that which has been promised to them from the beginning. In the case of the American Dream, that means big money and nothing more.
I was talking about our availability of money. Our buying power is increased as with the paycheck because we work just as hard as our ancestors. Right now I admit we are cash poor because we are investing in our land and work. But we still live better and have more. I know people that have risen from poverty I know people that have gone to poverty. It all depends upon you, not the system, there are ways if you work, think and act to pick yourself up and move up.
No system is perfect. Can’t be, not with humans in charge. You can belly ache and belly up, its your choice or you can kick yourself in the pants and get somewhere. If you are stuck in the city and are poverty stricken well do what our ancestors did and walk your happy butt out of there and struggle for that dream. There are those that can’t but, there are more that can. The Gov’t does not make the system bleak, we do it ourselves with apathy and giving up.
You are a good person Xunzian,but , I see your system as a way to remove all self responsibility and self esteem from the masses. To put the responsibility on the Gov’t for your economic life is giving yourself to servitude and endentureship. Only the few will be in charge and the thumbs will push down hard. Its already happening here, Big brother is slipping the noose tighter and tighter. The powerful want welfare and socialism. It is perfect for controlling. No chance of any upstart coming up and removing their power. Remove capitalism totally and only the powerful will be in control, Very little chance of power upsets.
Laws are being written right and left to remove freedoms and money. The IRS changes things every year, Tax increases are not needed but, its done.
Slowly painlessly we are losing our rights and freedoms to be individuals and to live with dignity and responsibility. The powerful want us on welfare and Gov’t rations.
Well tell me then siatd, what do the people control?
Government holds and dismisses all liberties, all while forcibly levying taxes from the populace.
Media controls all laws through their own versions of social morality, but even then, the government can use legislation to stop them in their tracks.
Corporations want legislation to favor their ends, (corporations in America have the right of law as an individual to bar them from legislation that holds them responsible financially for impropriety, outright malfeasance and negligence), but have to coerce the proper individuals in government to get those laws passed. Those laws are passed on greenback contributions, and pledges of continual political support.
The American society, in the largest sense, is so self-absorbed in their own private delusions, that things such as pragmatics, objectivity, rationality and active citizenship are dead; except in the most remote (academic) sense.
My friend I did not buy into this I was born into it. Now I can either lay down and give up. I can say you are right and lets go socialist/communist.
You see I don’t like welfare, I hate pity, and handouts. I can’t stand having to depend upon others for my bread, been there done it and hated it.
You want to get rid of people like me. You want to punish people like me. You would have me give up all my land and share it with others that will not apreciate it and will trash it. You want people like me to foot the bill for them also. Kids are one thing, adults are entirely different critturs. I gladly help kids, but, not adults unless they are truly trying.
Can’t do it. I can’t bring myself to help those who would rather have me do all the work and they get a share just because they happen to be alive.
Sorry that disgusts me.
Ahhh, but that is just it. There are many, many productive people who are denied their chance at productivity because they are stuck in an economic situation that prevents them from actually doing anything.
I’ve never advocated the absolute redistribution of wealth – I’ve always felt that there should be a gradient of wealth; however, I do feel that America has an absurdly wide bell-curve at the moment in terms of distribution and that social mobility is incredibly poor.
On the state of class mobility in America, I would refer you to:
You have a sad and pathetic view of the world and those around you. I have unending empathy and pity for you because I was once there. Please get well soon.
Unless of course you are a corporation given legal (yet “fictional”) status as a person. Then you’re in luck! According to the Cato Institute “The federal government spent $92 billion in direct and indirect subsidies to businesses and private- sector corporate entities — expenditures commonly referred to as “corporate welfare” — in fiscal year 2006…” God bless corporate welfare!
There are more power groups than just the government and the people.
Yep, it’s called economic dictatorship.
When was the last time you heard of a senior media figure getting done for anything? The media has more free reign than the government, as the government totally relies on the media to sell its spin.
So a few bribes and promises gets them what they want - sounds like the corporations are ultimately in charge here.
Same in this country.
Bankers. Without them, the government has no economy to run. And running the economy is how the government achieves power. Legislation is just words on a page.
ROTFLMFAO you suck at editing posts, you do realize that, don’t you?
Lesson one. If you are going to mangle what someone has written. Take an obscure post that would take time to look up and verify how it was written. Not one that is right there.
Lesson two: Don’t mangle posts of an active person on the forum. They will take the time to get the original post.
Lesson three: Twisting posts so blatantly out of whack just tells others that you have nothing of real value. That all you wish to do is to cause real problems. Ok It really only tells me that, I can’t vouch for the others.
Lesson four: Go take a course in editing. You will learn how to twist things so much better and much more subtle than your hamhanded schoolyard efforts to date.
Have fun and get an education sweetie, you need it.
Good point about corporate welfare. Here’s a novel idea why not have a free enterprise system where corporations are expected to live or die on their own? Many of the corporate giants get fat sucking on the tit of the big government that they love to bash at the same time.
The stats came from HHS Administration for Children and Families. The most recent I found online was 2002. But the trend has been steadily downward from the peak of 14 million recipients in 1993 to under 5 million for a good bit of 2002. Minimum wage jobs at McDonald’s and Wal-mart and the like have replaced public welfare.
Yes I do. Anyone who has talked to me online knows I have very poor control over the English language.
That would ruin the reasoning behind my post. I had no intention of obfuscating anything.
Take the time? The original post is a little to the top. One would assume that the reader has already read your original post.
I did wish to insult your depressing view of life and if that constitute a “real problem” than it appears it was a success. Would it not be “twisting” your words if I would have done something like this…
I don’t see much difference from what I did. My way saved room. Either way these are things you yourself said.
This is as good advice as any and with time maybe I will. Though I doubt that I will ever abandon my “hamhanded schoolyard efforts” they seem characteristic of myself and my general demeanor.
Indeed this is sound advice- as were my suggestions for you. But with all this said I still feel like you have reflected or disregarded my main point.