solipism... and its effects

So the idea exists (solipism) and I was just looking to start a discussion about what people thought of it and other relating concepts.

I remember watching the Truman show one time and blah blah after a friend was like what if that was you… as this is not solipism, which is thinking that you are the only mind in the universe that exists, it touches on the possibility of things that would suck or whatever just as much.

anyone reading this could be “that guy” and I think philosophy teaches to be “that guy” if you are not than your disciplined or your conscious is “right” ,

But… I have a hard time thinking that philosophy doesn’t push those questions on people and the return to normalness is impossible because the thoughts will always remain and the current conditions of “reality” is rediculous. I would like to know if anyone out there thinks in the super extreme ways.

I’m not sure I entirely understand your post, but I think a discussion of solipsism is interesting.

Just as a starting point, here’s the definition from wikipedia:

“Solipsism (Latin: solus, alone + ipse, self) is the philosophical idea that “My mind is the only thing that exists”. Solipsism is an epistemological or metaphysical position that knowledge of anything outside the mind is unjustified. The external world and other minds cannot be known and might not exist. In the history of philosophy, solipsism has served as a skeptical hypothesis, and is considered impossible to refute.”

For the sake of convenience, I’m going to talk about Rene Descartes for a bit, but that’s just for my own convenience (and because many of you will be familiar with Descartes), not because these ideas can’t be understood without this kind of name dropping (which I may well do throughout).

Solipsism is very similar to (and often inspired by) Descartes’ conclusion, “I think therefore I am” (often expressed as cogito ergo sum), although Descartes ended up going beyond a solipsistic point of view.

Descartes arrived at this point by pursuing his skeptical project to doubt everything he possibly could and see if there was anything he could know with certainty.

He justified this approach by an appeal to various observations about the fallibility of his own intuitions as well as the use of a thought experiment known as the Evil Daemon (which is an extreme version of the same kind of idea you’re talking about with your reference to The Truman Show). An other thought experiment with a similar purpose is the Brain in a Vat.

You can read about both of these thought experiments on Wikipedia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_Daemon

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_in_a_vat

Both of these presuppose an outside force which is capable of tricking us about any and all of our observations. How can we know we aren’t being fooled? We can’t. Despite this nearly total uncertainty about what we believe, we are left with that inescapable premise: “I think, therefore I am.”

Although I believe there are some problems here, I like this approach very much.

“Assumptions have all the advantages of theft over honest toil.” - Bertrand Russell

If an argument, no matter how complex, no matter how many premises it contains, contains one false premise (or assumption), the conclusion is not certain. If we engage in philosophical thought without examining our basic beliefs, we risk making this kind of mistake. Therefore, I am very sympathetic with Descartes’ project to doubt everything he can, and a solipsistic point of view. But I feel compelled to go further.

To me, conceptions such as mind, self, and thought, all rely on further assumptions. I can find no support for these assumptions. My conclusion is that even solipsism (as defined above) relies too much on assumptions. The only conclusion I can come to is that there is no basic belief, no starting point, no first premise, that we are justified in believing.

I could discuss my reasons for this further, but feel I’ve typed enough for the time being.

What do you think?

Good job!

The idea about assumptions is good.

…and believing in false premises… basically gets you the wrong conclusion is also good.

I think that is well said, but then were does your faith rest. Does it exist within yourself? I mean, it could be the evil daemon or from what you said… it, faith, or you, could have one false assumption and that could or possibly would leave you with your faith being wrong. Your ideas could be, in any case, worthless.

I use the word faith here to explain the frusteration I have with philosophy and randomn theories because the “Think, therefore I am” is all I am left with.

My mind and my experiences is what I have to go from and what I am left with might be what you said about not being able to justify beliefs. However…

I WISH I could justify my beliefs and that is what i want to do. Although this just doesn’t have to just do with faith I think it is a good descriptor to show how basically, with this said, you are left with the fact that “these” or any ideas are only possibilities. And, with a possibility lies a way for it to be true. Obviously I would want to know what is true.

So then I or someone searches for what is truth and does not find it. These ideas just are used to think then.?.?.? This thinking of basically dumb stuff leaves me with the idea that nothing makes sense, messing with faith and leaving me or you with more possibilities that some source should or does know truth. I think or hope it does.

If what you said about assumptions is taken to its end than you would just be thinking all day long, every day about things that you have no real clue, idea, or safe way to arive at any truth. It seems like a deadly maze of assumptions that destroys faith in or from a positive source that leaves you with… ?(what)?..From what I can tell it would leave anyone with
questions…and more questions. Some questions should have answers and I think you can get the point of what I said.

Once again if you can’t stand on any belief than what are you standing on. Pretty much shit. The evil daemon wins…or maybe has won…of course that rests on the faith that is disturbed by “not being able to justify what we believe.”

I know I’m ignorant and fooled but what can you do?

If I thought you were real, I’d contribute to this thread :laughing:

A or B and not both.

A: My world is like a hoax, intentional or not. Everything that indicates anything could fit together in some ways but does not actually fit with my reality at all.

B: My world is reality. I can understand things based on how they fit together. I can assume that there are many minds because instruments observe my mind and observe theirs with similarity.

If I decide A, then I may as well be a nihilist, because how am I to decide on anything at all since I no longer have a validity to reason anything.

If I decide B, then I can continue this post, finish it, (factoring in whatever ethical, epistemological, metaphysical etc. reasoning) and regard solipsism as completely invalid.

Naturally, I choose B.

I ignore solipsism.


I don’t see any other dynamic (holes) to this reasoning, which might make me closeminded. Can you?

The “return to normalness” (if I understand you correctly) is as simple as keeping separate the epistemological questions from the ontological ones --that is, keeping separate “what we know” from “what is.” They are not the same thing; and the acknowledgement that they are not the same thing is the best defence against solipsism.

“What we know” creates the social reality of thought and idea. “What is,” is a separate issue, and one that from an agnostic stance can never be “truly” known, but that’s not a bad thing because we have, hold, and utilize the social reality. It is what is useful for us. It is our functional world, and all we really need, as we demonstrate day after day.

I would like to know what “thinking in the super extreme ways” is. It sounds like a lot of fun. :slight_smile: