Some notes on the growth of Rome

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
1

Rome was originally a city state comparable in size and development to many other sorrounding ones, including many Gaellic ones. It grew and developped in the same way as all those, through haphazard alliances and trade routes, etc. Rome at one point reached a critical mass of advantage beyond which it transcended into a different level of power than the others, an imperceptible point but quite irrevocable, that only became cristal clear once the truly old, established and civilized Carthagenians were defeated. The Carthageneans, by the way, whose plan of attack was to ingrain themselves in the haphazard networks of alliances Rome was part of on the side of her enemies, so that the war against Carthage was also largely a war of Rome and her allied or client city states against the opposed networks of neighbouring city states, or tribes.

It wasn’t a spaceship with aliens that landed and started subjugating the poor Europeans with their poor cultural traditions.

2

Even when it had grown large enough to evidently be the enemy in those parts of the world, the Goths and such that attacked it attacked it in the capacity of neighbouring tribes doing war, it was never like Independence Day doing war on the evil invading aliens for the survival of human goddness or whatever. When they saw an opening, they took it, and where they gave one, they were thrashed.

Shit wasn’t Star Wars.

3

Granted, by the time Octvian came along, then maybe it was a little bit like Star Wars, then it was really dimensions apart.

But the way there was always gradual, Octavian Rome was what it was because it became it slowly through very specific evolutionary pressures.

They didn’t just wake up one day with an obscene amount of power and decide to fuck up all the European tribes.

4

It was fair war.

5

After its political structures had become untennable and Rome became just a people, it was also not, in fact it was very much less, a fact of some overpowerful bullying force subjugating peoples.

Whenever a heathen tribe came accross Rome, it simply was floored by the accumulated power represented in Rome’s Church, and positively begged, begged, to be granted the right to make use of its magic. Nobody forced them, they hardly could have, with no standing army of any kind. There was also no need to trick or brainwash. It was clear and obvious to all tribes that came accross it that Rome had immense cultural power, perceived correctly as magical or religious power.

After enough of this, the Roman people once again became strong enough to start imposing some rule. After centuries of Gothic begging.

Often, quite after it was already clear and established that the Church was a formal superstate, and not simply a repository of magical artefacts. When some warlord or another felt threatened, they willingly went, on their knees, to the Church, to be formally put under its protection and become literal Roman lands.

Many times formal contracts of fief were drawn.

6

Vercingetorix did not beg. Neither did the Goths in the end. Nor the Franks, or Saxons.

Theoderic fucks you!
Goths ran the later empire from Germania.

7

It’s not Either-Or.

The Light Age of Rome contrasts the Dark. Sun and moon, waxes and wanes, while Absolute-power corrupts Absolutely.

Why did the Medieval Feudal Ages, of European Lords and Nobility, follow from the Catholic Dark Ages??? Explain it to me.

Explain the Roman Crusades East, to Jerusalem, and eventually North, toward Valhalla.

How many times have the Roman-Italics and Greek-Hellenes clashed with the Gauls? Why have Germans been called ‘Barbarian’ for most of European History? How were they brought into the fold? Were they ever, truly, controlled by the Vatican? What about the Goths? The Vandals? The Visigoths? The Huns? Which groups were Christianized and brought into Christendom? Which were not? How, why and why not?

You’re only scratching the surface of Rome’s skin…go deeper, into the Catacombs…what secrets lay within the tombs of tomes?

What Wealth from the Old World does Rome sit upon? What dark Secrets? Whispered between the pews of Confession???

8

There was no Catholic dark age. Eventually Rome collapsed politically and Gothic warlords began fighting wars of conquest in European land, this is known as the dark ages or medieval feudal ages. You could call it Catholic dark age too if you wished, as all these warlords immediately became Catholic on hearing about Catholicism.

They were trying to fight back against the great Arab conquerors who were already knocking on the doors of Austria.

This was more an issue of enforcing feudal contracts that northern Goths had entered into freely (as i said, in most cases begged for) and then wanted to renege on.

There were also some episodes with Templars, but Templars were not the Church. They were themselves warlords that had asked to be part of Rome, and then with that protection went and conquered at will.

As many times as Roman-Italics, Greek-Hellenes or Gauls felt like a foray, a raid or a fight.

Well, essencially…

Like all the other heathens, they begged for it.

Yes.

All of their own accord. Roma had no armies then to convince them.

Luck I think. The Huns were Mongols, not Goths, and probably it was sheer luck they stopped their expansion when they did.

With the Huns, the question was open whether it would be China or Rome who conquered the whole Earth. It was to be Rome. By a hair.

Now this is a good question. All groups that were less ancient. All groups equally or more ancient were more resistant, like India, China or Israel. But Israel is debatable because, even though the Jewish people never converted, they were from the beginning part of Christendom.

Thousands upon thousands.

9

Come to think of it, China and India too eventually became part of Christendom. They just are more resistant to the religious aspect, because they have their own mechanisms for remembering that far back.

10

To their detriment, I would say, as neither India nor China’s memory includes Greece.

11

Though in practice the question is answered by how ancient your memory is, I believe it should be answered by how civilized your mind is.

In that sense, I believe only two peoples have an apropriate answer: Jews and Japaners.

12

Japan’s downfall largely began when the Samurai class was abolished, and their emperor all but converted.

Not to say I don’t understand why they felt they needed to do such a thing, that their technological and organizational apparatuses were just not on the par of survival, but the germ of defeat was there already. In taking on a Roman guise, they attracted the attention and worry of the United States, who did with them what they would do to any other Roman entity that was becoming a threat: goad them into war.

If they had set about conquering the Pacific in a more Samurai way, they would have been invisible to the US.

13

Are you trolling or seriously this ignorant?

How about Centuries of Torture?

bibliotecapleyades.net/vati … ican29.htm

And it’s common knowledge and history:

study.com/academy/lesson/the-da … eline.html

14

That’s what I’m saying, Catholic Dark Ages = Medieval Feudal Ages.

You had named them as two distinct things.

15

They are distinct because Southern Europeans are specifically Catholic, whereas other Europeans are not.

You do realize that Europeans have distinct cultures, languages, and beliefs right?

You do realize that Europeans look and act different from one-another, right?

Not all Europeans were/are Roman or Catholic. This applies to the Feudal Era as well.

16

They were then.

17

Protestantism was born well after any historian will agree the Medieval period concluded.

18

Descendants of warlords wanting to renege on the contracts of their fathers.

19

No, they weren’t, non-Roman Europeans were Pagans and resisted Christendom for over a millennia.

So, I repeat my previous questions…given that the Roman Catholic Dark Age began in 500AD, why did European Feudalism and the Medieval Era follow from that???

20

Any “pagans” that resisted Christendom did so outside of Medieval Feudalism.

This was what defined Feudalism. Barbarians converting to Christianity (Catholicism) and doing war on each other.

The ones that resisted converted as soon as they headed to mainland with bounty on their minds. Usually well before.

Don’t hate me, hate history.