Those aren’t really easy questions to answer, are they phyllo?
Do you turn a dear friend into the police and he lands up in jail which might not serve any purpose for him but will get him off the streets so that he doesn’t hurt another innocent person. That’s a good thing for society but maybe not for him.
But that might not necessarily improve his chances for a better future or get him off the drugs except for a time.
Do you ask him to turn himself in - thus beginning his own rehabilitation? Might you succeed in that? Will he feel enough remorse to do that?

You would certainly not give him money to buy drugs. Giving money to the old lady might only be bribe. She might take it but it wouldn’t really help your friend.
Doing nothing changes nothing except that the next time someone might die and it might be your friend. Guilt and more remorse.

What is the path of love - I suppose it is what goes beyond good and evil - what is the most rational thing to do which causes the less amount of harm for all?

And we’re dealing with human beings who have emotions.
But i think love of whom would begin with your friend…and then extend outward to everyone who he comes in contact with.

What would I do? Maybe see about getting him to a lawyer who might as a result of a hearing after he confesses, if it’s a first-time thing, put him in some rehab program - which might also fail.
Do we throw him to the wolves? Is there a medium ground here in which to walk?

Love is not such an easy path to follow because we don’t know the consequences of such. We don’t want to be sentimental or judgmental either - we just need to do something.
Back to the beginning - what is the best way to love in this case?

To worship is to give extreme reverence and devotion.

If you neither revere nor have any devotion to the teachings of Jesus, then you have no worship of Jesus. The same for anything else.

Today there is a push to worship Nietzsche, merely as an engineering tool with which to cause a new world order, “blind change unto the Ubermensch”.

To worship God merely means to have great reverence and devotion to what it is that causes the universe to be what it is, reality. But that tends to defeat those who are engineering change because their effort to cause change requires that people not see what they are getting themselves into.

Those who propose that others worship nothing are those proposing utter blindness and weakness … usually for an insidious purpose.

james says----------
To worship God merely means to have great reverence and devotion to what it is that causes the universe to be what it is, reality. But that tends to defeat those who are engineering change because their effort to cause change requires that people not see what they are getting themselves into.

Those who propose that others worship nothing are those proposing utter blindness and weakness … usually for an insidious purpose.
turtle says----
james why should anyone worship the reality god…

They think that you’re odd because you simply enjoy sitting in a church with your friends even though your beliefs are different?
I find nothing to be odd about that.
We enjoy/you enjoy being with your friends - and a church, its ambiance -despite our beliefs - can hold something of the spiritual for us/can still bring us peace and serenity. You do believe in a god anyway. You just don’t hold the same view as your friends. So what!
Human beings are social creatures and spiritual creatures. We just renew ourselves in different ways.

Anyway, if your friends think you are odd because of this but love you still - it makes no difference.

Because to not do so leads to insecurity, insanity, suffering, and death.

If one is not attending to and respecting reality (once called “praying”), he has a strong tendency to suffer in fear and die. Jesus recommended to “pray always” (always attend to What Is: aka “God”).

Respecting reality is always good.

James S Saint

Seems to be a bit of a conundrum there, for me, James, since it is those very things which keep reality out of focus in the first place.

Praying is different to different people, James and I never heard that definition of praying before.
People often pray in ways which deny reality - doesn’t lead to reality.

So what do you think Christ meant when he said this?

…or so you perceive it to be.

When hasn’t there been people who have done absurd and bizarre things in the name of some strange worship they have fallen into? If some do it wrong, it is wrong to do it? What would that actually leave to do that wasn’t wrong to do?

I am pretty certain that I just explained that.

It’s so easy just to ridicule without any attempt at understanding. Ridicule is reason at its most foul. If reason could account for all reality, we would all be atheists by now. But reason has an end which reality surpasses. This was a message of Kierkegaard’s. We do not know total reality even though we are immersed within it–hence faith. Let me not to the world add the toxins of my doubt; may I add only the medicines of love.

it is good to stick to the facts and be kind to each other…

What facts does Lev adhere to? They are not mine. Your comment does not address the real problem of reason seen as all there is, rather than love. Did you read all of my post? Are you a moderator?

Being too scared to avoid the truth is a good thing.

But seriously…this kind of mind reading - where the person chooses the most beneficial (for themselves) interpretation for another person’s behavior and states it as a fact, should be avoided by people presenting themselves as on the team of reason and science. It could be that he experiences your questions, Lev, sometimes at least, as disingenuous or as part of rhetorical tricks. He might be right about this. He might be wrong about this. But it is possible he stated the exact reason he decided not to answer. So when you come back stating what is really going on in his mind and his real motives, you are making claims about your own psychic ability

and that’s kind fucked up given what your likely philosophical position is on psychic phenomena.

There must be a way for you to be a dick without being a hypocrite at the same time.

ier you again are being aggressive with me…I don’t understand what you are angry about…

When truth makes you ridiculous - look to yourself.

Not angry, just frustrated. I did not want this to be turned into just another Lev Vs Ierrellus thread. I had hopes that the concepts of religion and spirituality could be discussed in depth. Some here have attempted that. I appreciate your contributions.

Your trouble is that, in common with many people of religion, you demand a monopoly on matters spiritual. Rather than discuss religion and spirituality, you have demanded that we follow your prescription, and have rejected out of hand my view on it.

Then you get pissed off and angry that someone else might think I have a point in what I said.
Rather than confront the issues you shy away and go off in a hump.

For the last time, this thread is about the positive effects of religion and spirituality. It is not about me. Defamation of dogmas is for the spiritual tyro.


I did say “for me”, James. We all hold different perceptions of things.

What I meant by the conundrum is that in order to see/face/live in reality, we first have to attend to the insecurities, insanity, the way in which we suffering, et cetera. You cannot just tell someone who has those experiences — FACE REALITY. I don’t think it works that way.
There are tools which are needed to get there.

My response was in relation to your definition of “praying” - respecting reality. I suppose what you meant was that in praying - as many people do - asking for things - we need to be realistic. That would be called a prayer of petition not necessarily being spiritual. That might be akin to someone making a wish and blowing out their birthday candles.

Perhaps learning to see with different “eyes”.
Stop praying - just BE.

How does one attend to What is; namely, reality/God?

Not really. What you have to do is establish trust in someone/thing that can take care of that for you.

If you don’t want to get rained upon, do you try to just face that getting rained upon is reality? Or do you find some sturdy truss to stand under?

Yes … establishing trust. How do you know who to listen to? And to what degree concerning which matters?

To pray is to seek. To pray to God is to seek of the real situation that you are in. And that includes the people all around you.

In that little joke, who was “God”?
Of whom do you seek whatever it is that you wish for?
And are you actually listening/attending/respecting?

You don’t get to dictate what the thread is about, or what direction it takes. If you want that you might as well start a church and make yourself the archbishop.
This is “I Love Philosophy”
See how far you would get if you prescribed a thread about Hitler and demanded that we only talk about the positive benefits.