Because to not do so leads to insecurity, insanity, suffering, and death.
If one is not attending to and respecting reality (once called “praying”), he has a strong tendency to suffer in fear and die. Jesus recommended to “pray always” (always attend to What Is: aka “God”).
Respecting reality is always good.
James S Saint
Seems to be a bit of a conundrum there, for me, James, since it is those very things which keep reality out of focus in the first place.
Praying is different to different people, James and I never heard that definition of praying before.
People often pray in ways which deny reality - doesn’t lead to reality.
So what do you think Christ meant when he said this?
…or so you perceive it to be.
When hasn’t there been people who have done absurd and bizarre things in the name of some strange worship they have fallen into? If some do it wrong, it is wrong to do it? What would that actually leave to do that wasn’t wrong to do?
I am pretty certain that I just explained that.
Lev.
It’s so easy just to ridicule without any attempt at understanding. Ridicule is reason at its most foul. If reason could account for all reality, we would all be atheists by now. But reason has an end which reality surpasses. This was a message of Kierkegaard’s. We do not know total reality even though we are immersed within it–hence faith. Let me not to the world add the toxins of my doubt; may I add only the medicines of love.
it is good to stick to the facts and be kind to each other…
What facts does Lev adhere to? They are not mine. Your comment does not address the real problem of reason seen as all there is, rather than love. Did you read all of my post? Are you a moderator?
Being too scared to avoid the truth is a good thing.
But seriously…this kind of mind reading - where the person chooses the most beneficial (for themselves) interpretation for another person’s behavior and states it as a fact, should be avoided by people presenting themselves as on the team of reason and science. It could be that he experiences your questions, Lev, sometimes at least, as disingenuous or as part of rhetorical tricks. He might be right about this. He might be wrong about this. But it is possible he stated the exact reason he decided not to answer. So when you come back stating what is really going on in his mind and his real motives, you are making claims about your own psychic ability
and that’s kind fucked up given what your likely philosophical position is on psychic phenomena.
There must be a way for you to be a dick without being a hypocrite at the same time.
ier you again are being aggressive with me…I don’t understand what you are angry about…
When truth makes you ridiculous - look to yourself.
Turtle,
Not angry, just frustrated. I did not want this to be turned into just another Lev Vs Ierrellus thread. I had hopes that the concepts of religion and spirituality could be discussed in depth. Some here have attempted that. I appreciate your contributions.
Your trouble is that, in common with many people of religion, you demand a monopoly on matters spiritual. Rather than discuss religion and spirituality, you have demanded that we follow your prescription, and have rejected out of hand my view on it.
Then you get pissed off and angry that someone else might think I have a point in what I said.
Rather than confront the issues you shy away and go off in a hump.
For the last time, this thread is about the positive effects of religion and spirituality. It is not about me. Defamation of dogmas is for the spiritual tyro.
James,
I did say “for me”, James. We all hold different perceptions of things.
What I meant by the conundrum is that in order to see/face/live in reality, we first have to attend to the insecurities, insanity, the way in which we suffering, et cetera. You cannot just tell someone who has those experiences — FACE REALITY. I don’t think it works that way.
There are tools which are needed to get there.
My response was in relation to your definition of “praying” - respecting reality. I suppose what you meant was that in praying - as many people do - asking for things - we need to be realistic. That would be called a prayer of petition not necessarily being spiritual. That might be akin to someone making a wish and blowing out their birthday candles.
Perhaps learning to see with different “eyes”.
Stop praying - just BE.
How does one attend to What is; namely, reality/God?
Not really. What you have to do is establish trust in someone/thing that can take care of that for you.
If you don’t want to get rained upon, do you try to just face that getting rained upon is reality? Or do you find some sturdy truss to stand under?
Yes … establishing trust. How do you know who to listen to? And to what degree concerning which matters?
To pray is to seek. To pray to God is to seek of the real situation that you are in. And that includes the people all around you.
In that little joke, who was “God”?
Of whom do you seek whatever it is that you wish for?
And are you actually listening/attending/respecting?
You don’t get to dictate what the thread is about, or what direction it takes. If you want that you might as well start a church and make yourself the archbishop.
This is “I Love Philosophy”
See how far you would get if you prescribed a thread about Hitler and demanded that we only talk about the positive benefits.
James S Saint
That sounds awfully controlling to me James. Don’t you think that it ought to be a harmony of both parties working together to achieve that? Being helpful and giving guidance is not the same as taking care of it.
If there is someone who is going to take care of that - the other person who is in need is going to give up all autonomy and self-growth, that doesn’t lead one on the road to being spiritual - just being controlled.
lol I think that maybe you’re looking for a mate to take care of James 
- or perhaps you already have one.
That might depend on the individual. Walking through that “rain” that is uncomfortable and unwanted is helpful to facing reality.
On the other hand, some might want to stand under something which would leave them protected and dry. Being protected and dry is not always what it’s perceived to be.
You begin with a little self-trust, no matter how unfamiliar or foreign. Then you look listen, observe and inch your way towards someone cautiously but with determination and with the faith and hope (ugh) lol that you will reach the candlelight which shines in the darkness.
Good questions.
At this moment in time, I wish to know what it feels like to be those leaves on the branches of the tree which are in harmony with the breeze outside the window I am looking out.
That’s it - I wish to be in perfect harmony - but not so much in perfect harmony - but just to experience harmony in the moment as I can. Can I wish for more than that? Would I dare to? If I did, I would take myself out of harmony.
Didn’t expect that, did you?
Fear inspires the most extreme imaginings.
A) Everyone is to some degree codependent upon something/one else. Fear of it causes that loss of harmony with it.
B) Isn’t it better to choose in what/whom to trust rather than leave it up to the manipulations of others?
C) I said “establish trust”. I didn’t say to put blind faith in whatever comes along. Have reasons for what/who you trust.
D) Everything is trustable for something. Nothing is trustable for everything. Choose which restaurant serves which of your tastes at each time to sit to dine. Trust for short moments, else never rest and never be satisfied.
Fear also inspires very many excuses to avoid doing the most obvious good for yourself. Fear makes fools of everyone.
But would those things have to be about religion per se? They could be because of a profound spirituality or way of looking at things I think, Ierrellus, not necessarily because of religion.
I may be wrong here but maybe any religion can only be as beneficial and capable of inspiring sacredness, meaning and mystery as are those who practice said religions.
for some people secular humanism has nothing to do with spirituality…
to others it has everything to do with spirituality minus the church…