Stirner's influence on Nietzsche

Was Friedrich Nietzsche influenced by Max Stirner

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I have often heard this in here. That Friedrich Nietzsche was influenced by Max Stirner, but I could never find any evidence of it until now.

lsr-projekt.de/poly/ennietzsche.html

(to say time only read the last 3 or so sections)

What do you think? I have often hailed Nietzsche for acknowledging his predecessors, but perhaps in this case he did not. The jury still seems out on this one, but this is the best argument I have found to date.

A mind is often influenced without it being consciously aware of it.

Our every experience, our every interaction affects us and shapes us.

Even those you oppose influence you by forcing your opposition to them.

What, sometimes, happens is that different influences converge and congeal within a mind to create a new combination that might draw from different sources but that blends them in new ways.

To what degree an influence affects us or how much it participates with other affects to establish an opinion or a worldview is debatable.

First I should say I didn’t read the essay linked above, so what follows may or may not be relevant. Nevertheless, I have a pretty substantial Nietzsche library, and I took a moment to see how often Stirner’s name comes up.

I was not able to locate him in any of Nietzsche’s published works, nor in anything he did not publish, although my access to the letters and notebooks is limited. In terms of supplemental Nietzsche literature, I have some fifteen or twenty volumes, and Striner’s name appears in only two: one irrelevant mention in Kaufmann’s Nietzsche - but indeed a few times in Conversations With Nietzsche (ed. Sander Gilman).

He (Stirner) first comes up in a piece written by Ida Overbeck. First, she quotes Nietzsche saying ‘I was very disappointed in Klingler. He was a philistine, I feel no affinity with him; but Stirner, yes, with him!’ Then goes on to write:

Nietzsche had before the fall 1874 characterized Stirner’s work to his student Baumgartner as the boldest and most consistent since Hobbes. It thoroughly accords with Nietzsche’s nature that he could have studied Stirner sympathetically at so early a time . . . . Nietzsche paid innermost attention to Stirner. He neither proceeded from him nor stayed with him; yet he did not underestimate him, but considered him an unprejudiced thinker … and felt affinity with him. [Franz Overbeck noted] that Nietzsche had known Stirner. Stirner represents a very specific element in Nietzsche, though a small one if you wish, but for Nietzsche great and significant …

Later Stirner comes up again, in a piece by Resa von Schirnhofer, as she quotes from Henri Lichtenberger’s book on Nietzsche:

It is certain that despite his claims to complete originality he submitted, consciously or not, to the influence of his contemporaries, and that his thinking, once stripped of its paradoxical and aggressive style, is often much less new than it seems on first encounter. Uncompromising individualism, the cult of the self, hostility to the state, protest against the dogma of equality and against the cult of humanity are found stamped almost as strongly as in Nietzsche, in an author who is quite forgotten, Max Stirner, whose main work, The Individual and His Property (1845) is, from this point of view, very interesting to compare with Nietzsche’s writings.

But Resa also makes clear Nietzsche never mentioned Stirner to her, personally.

You have to look at Stirner’s position in Europe - basically the poor fecker was despised. But loads of people were refering to Stirner but never by name - the classical example was Marx and Engels “The German Ideology”- which is a pretty poor attempt to critique the ego and its own - but again not mentioning him.

I think Nietzsche’s views are far wider and have much greater depth then Stirner (plus he’s a million times easier to read)
BUT, none the less, I suspect Nietzsche must have got access to Stirner at some stage and that there was surely some influence:

lsr-projekt.de/poly/eninnuce.html

and

lsr-projekt.de/poly/ennietzsche.html

(I think this guys thesis of Nietzsche as a “stirner suppressor” (!) is over the top - but an interesting read)

Here’s an extremely badly written anarchist appreciation of/introduction to Stirner by myself (from a good few years ago!)

flag.blackened.net/revolt/rbr/rbr6/stirner.html

The wikipdedia link (I know, I know- trust them not) is quite interesting

[i]While The German Ideology so assured The Ego and Its Own a place of curious interest among Marxist readers, Marx’s ridicule of Stirner has played a significant role in the subsequent marginalization of Stirner’s work, in popular and academic discourse.

Over the course of the last hundred and fifty years, Stirner’s thinking has proved an intellectual challenge, reminiscent of the challenge Cartesian criticism brought to western philosophy. His philosophy has been characterized as disturbing, sometimes even considered a direct threat to civilization; something that ought not even be mentioned in polite company, and that should be, if encountered by some unfortunate happenstance, examined as briefly as possible and then best forgotten. Stirner’s relentlessness in the service of scuttling the most tenaciously held tenets of the Western mindset yields a terrain which bears testimony to the radical threat he posed; most writers who read and were influenced by Stirner failed to make any references to him or The Ego and Its Own at all in their writing. As the renowned art critic Herbert Read has observed, Stirner’s book has remained ‘stuck in the gizzard’ of Western culture since it first appeared.

It has been argued that Nietzsche did read Stirner’s book, yet even he did not mention Stirner anywhere in his work, his letters, or his papers [1]. Nietzsche’s thinking sometimes resembles Stirner’s to such a degree that Eduard von Hartmann called him a plagiarist. This seems too simple an explanation of what Nietzsche might have done with Stirner’s ideas. Stirner’s book had been in oblivion for half a century, and only after Nietzsche became well-known in the 1890s did Stirner become more well-known, although only as an awkward predecessor of Nietzsche. Thus Nietzsche - as with Marx’s concept of historical materialism in 1845/46 - did not really plagiarize Stirner but instead “superseded” him by creating a philosophy.

Several other authors, philosophers and artists have cited, quoted or otherwise referred to Max Stirner. They include Albert Camus (In The Rebel), Benjamin Tucker, Dora Marsden, Georg Brandes, Rudolf Steiner, Robert Anton Wilson, Italian individualist anarchist Frank Brand, the notorious antiartist Marcel Duchamp, several writers of the situationist movement, and Max Ernst, who titled a 1925 painting L’unique et sa propriété. The Italian dictator Benito Mussolini read and was inspired by Stirner, and made several references to him in his newspaper articles, prior to rising to power. His later writings would uphold a view opposed to Stirner, a trajectory mirrored by the composer Richard Wagner.

Since its appearance in 1844, The Ego and Its Own has seen periodic revivals of popular, political and academic interest, based around widely divergent translations and interpretations – some psychological, others political in their emphasis. Today, many ideas associated with post-left anarchy criticism of ideology and uncompromising individualism - are clearly related to Stirner’s. He has also been regarded as pioneering individualist feminism, since his objection to any absolute concept also clearly counts gender roles as ‘spooks’. His ideas were also adopted by post-anarchism, with Saul Newman largely in agreement with many of Stirner’s criticisms of classical anarchism, including his rejection of revolution and essentialism.

Stirner’s demolition of absolute concepts disturbs traditional concepts of attribution of meaning to language and human existence, and can be seen as pioneering a modern media theory which focuses on dynamic conceptions of language and reality, in contrast to reality as subject to any absolute definition. Jean Baudrillard’s critique of Marxism and development of a dynamic theory of media, simulation and ‘the real’ employs some of the same elements Stirner used in his Hegelian critique without, however, making recourse to very much that lies at the heart of the plumb-line libertarian core of Stirner’s philosophy. Though many in the poststructuralist camp have championed Stirner’s thought, the core tenets of these two entities are wholly incompatible; Stirner would never agree, for example, with that fundamental poststructuralist idea, that as a product of systems, the self is undermined. For Stirner, the self cannot be a mere product of systems. There remains, in the Stirnerian schema, as described in the above, a place deep within the self which language and social systems cannot destroy. This idea finds expression, perhaps, in a concept put forward by the contemporary philosopher Julia Kristeva; the ‘semiotic chora’, as she calls it, represents a state of mind which predates the inculcation of the social apparatus in the mind of the young child.

[/i]

the ego and its own is at
flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchi … eego0.html

Last but not least an excellent anarchist introduction to Stirner from the anarchist FAQ

geocities.com/CapitolHill/1931/secG6.html

krossie

I’m a terror for posting without fully reading things.

I see I reposted your orginal links Marshall.

krossie

Wow! Some excellent responses! I shall attempt to answer all of them.

Satyr (great handle)

 I agree with this. There are many subconscious influences in our lives. I find it interesting, for example, That Stirner in [u]the ego and his own[/u] speaks about Pilate uttering, "What is truth" and Nietzsche mentioning the same thing in a different context. Did the one influence the other? I will probably never know.



 You are right. Even our opposition tends to shape us. Some hold their enemies high enough so that it becomes their raison d'tre (reason for existing). A brief glimpse at some counter-culture, extremist groups, and the like will suffice for an example.

Your penultimate statement:

reminds me of lateral thinking. One person who managed to enthrall me in the way he brought old ideas together into new combinations is the media expert Marshall Mcluhan.

Daybreak (A title by Nietzsche, incidentally)

It is good to hear from someone who has the books and read the man, like I have, instead of spouting out the same error-prone popular drivel.

The article which I completely read, but the meat of which, is contained in the last few sections, mentions the same things. Nietzsche never mentions Stirner except verbally to Ida Overbeck. The parallels to Stirner’s thinking are also mentioned in the article, but with no detail.

This is a quote from the article (section 5.2 unedited by me) This and other facts of how Nietzsche covered up this episode, of how he knew of Stirner in later periods, et cetera are introduced as evidence that Nietzsche was introduced to Stirner during this fortnight. Recall (as was previously mentioned in this post that Stirner had a tarnished name in Germany at the time and was little read.

Krossie

Don’t worry about it. I have done the same thing myself a few times. Some of the posts here get so long that reading them is like performing a herculean task, or untying the Gordian knot.

Aye! It was primarily due to Marx that ole Max got the bad name. Interestingly (and I think this comes from the Wikiopedia [wicca-pedia as I like to think of it] site) Stirner’s book The ego and it’s own came out in 1844, the year Nietzsche was born.

I am currently reading the html version of The ego and his own mentioned in Wikipedia and have purchased a copy for a good perusal in more recumbent positions.

I have always heard Stirner’s name mentioned in these tomes in association with that of Nietzsche’s but had never ran across a shred of evidence until now. Thanks for the site, comments, and suggestions.

Love, Peace, and Chicken Grease.
Your Humble Servant,
Marhall N. McDaniel

Yo Marshall - It would be no exageration to say that “The Ego and its Own” had a massive effect on me when I first read it maybe 5 years ago.
It made me actually stand back from a lot of stuff I was doing for a lot of people and just go - wait - what about me? The opening paragraph is just an unbelievable little diatribe!

  • And thence on to Nietzsche and, lately, Deleuze (tough!)
    That having been said it’s a desperate read.
    Very badly written!
    His habit of conflating his own views and long sarcastic versions of his opponents is confusing.
    He also is still very Hegelian and that also leads to some funny terminology.
    But still its a fantastically courageous book which takes an idea (the idea of rejecting all “ideas” I suppose in a way)
    and runs with it to the very end point!
    I’ve also read a few other bits and pieces by him including an excellent article on education. There’s no doubt a revival of interest and I’ve heard other stuff in German has been unearthed.
    He’s a huge influence on anarchism – especially on tendencies I wouldn’t be into myself like primitivism.

btw Daybreak seems, on what i have seen, to be a Nietzsche fanatic - but Nietzsche is “big” with a huge proportion of ILPers

Krossie