Study says prayer by strangers ineffective...

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

…on the recovery of people undergoing heart surgery. This is a large and well-formed study.

"In the study, the researchers monitored 1,802 patients at six hospitals who received coronary bypass surgery, in which doctors reroute circulation around a clogged vein or artery.

The patients were broken into three groups. Two were prayed for; the third was not. Half the patients who received the prayers were told that they were being prayed for; half were told that they might or might not receive prayers.

The researchers asked the members of three congregations — St. Paul’s Monastery in St. Paul; the Community of Teresian Carmelites in Worcester, Mass.; and Silent Unity, a Missouri prayer ministry near Kansas City — to deliver the prayers, using the patients’ first names and the first initials of their last names.

The congregations were told that they could pray in their own ways, but they were instructed to include the phrase, “for a successful surgery with a quick, healthy recovery and no complications.”

Analyzing complications in the 30 days after the operations, the researchers found no differences between those patients who were prayed for and those who were not.

…

One reason the study was so widely anticipated was that it was led by Dr. Benson, who in his work has emphasized the soothing power of personal prayer and meditation. "

Of course, this means nothing to some:

Bob Barth, the spiritual director of Silent Unity, the Missouri prayer ministry, said the findings would not affect the ministry’s mission.

“A person of faith would say that this study is interesting,” Mr. Barth said, “but we’ve been praying a long time and we’ve seen prayer work, we know it works, and the research on prayer and spirituality is just getting started.”

2

thats astounding :astonished: I never could have predicted that :astonished: :unamused:

GOOD SHOW =D> More studies like this in the future, and lets rub their holy noses in it :wink:

3

I don’t think the objective of prayer is to yield physical results. Praying for a ferrari twice a day for eight years won’t increase the chances of one spontaneously generating in your garage, but it will help you understand why you want a ferrari.

Similarly, praying that a loved one will fair well in a medical operation doesn’t directly help the loved one, but it will help the person who is praying come to understand what the ailment means in their lives. It will also effect the love they feel for the person they’re praying for, which could indirectly help the medical operation by bolstering the patient’s will to live. Again, this is my idea of prayer; I think some people literally expect God to help in surgeries at request.

4

I really like that explanation and agree very much but I think physical results are the primary reason most people pray. If you knew no one was going to answer and didn’t like self reflection you would just be talking to yourself.

5

And thats not prayer… prayer is talking to an agent, or a force who you believe will make a change.

Can I ask do you have a link to any sources on this husun?

6

husun, thank you, thank you very much.
This helps prove that prayer is useless.
The things that really matter, the most important, life and death matters, are ignored by the god that wasn’t there, whilst insane believers think that “god” is helping them in other little ways that don’t even matter in the big picture!

I already know what it is!

They seporate their good and bad side, their power and their weakness, and then they put all of their own good parts into their “god”, and once people pray to it, they are just re-activating or stimulating what they should have already been more united with. It’s an inner division.

“A nation divided against itself, cannot stant”
Wasn’t it Jesus that said that?
Almost ironic,
considering the judgmental madness, the self hate of the “sin”, and the fact that stupid Isreal crumbled!

~Stop the lies.
Dan, the faithless.

7

That’s weird - I’m sure I read of another study that showed significance in the other direction - that it did work. Hmm… Found it.

full link

“More things in heaven and earth” etc…

Tab.

8

I was wrong, but I’m no idiot.
I took the time to read all of that, and I would like to thank you, Tab. You helped me repair a misunderstanding, and believe in something true instead of something false.

Many thanks unto you.

9

Not only that, but now I realize why it is a human majority that are “delusional”. It’s active will; wanting, expecting and believing in more then what actually is, because thought and will are a means to an end, which are integrated with and partially altering reality.

edit:
[size=150]FARTHER![/size]
If the will of 15 people can increase/decrease growth in bacteria/fungi, then how much more so could 1 billion firm beliefs alter reality!?!?!

NOW I SEE WHAT GOD AND THE DEVIL REALLY ARE!
Yes, they are complex collective beings – fed and created by will and belief on earth. They aren’t real, but they are!!!

10

Anyone read “Blood-Music” by Greg Bear…? If you think of quantum theory, and the whole probabilty wave collapse bit, perhaps belief does have some effect on reality, directly, not just by proxy…?

Hey Dan - none of us are omniscient… Forgetaboutit. :wink:

11

I think to be truly fair, the test would have to include a base group of patients where their loved ones were praying for them. I believe slightly differently than Alun Aedicita but their explanation is close.

I believe that “prayer” can affect people. And by prayer I mean trying to execute your will through belief. This can be done through an intermediary source (such as God) or not. If I pray that a friend in the hospital recovers quickly and they do, do I know for sure whether I helped them or not? No, but belief can be a powerful thing.

Prayer has worked before but is this because of God, or just because of the connection between those two people? The power of mind over body can be great and if someone believes that you will recover and “pray” for it, and you believe in their prayers, who’s to say that you don’t convince your own body to heal itself in the best way possible. You make it happen through your own belief. It’s certainly not the rule, but why exclude it based on a study that doesn’t compare all necessary components in it’s work?

12

Let’s look for scientific evidence of God while we’re at it.

13

The patients, the bacteria and the fungi cultures – had no idea that people where “praying” for them. “Prayer” is asking for God to do it, not the pure visualizing and wanting of change. “Prayer” is the wrong word here.

Naty, “God” can prove himself, if he is what people claim that he is, but if “God” is a non-existent being, a collective of will – then what?