And on just what grounds do you make the distinction between mind and things outside of mind? And how are you defining mind here? Is it part of the body? Is it made up of cells? Or is it something over the body? And if that’s the case…why make the distinction between mind and things outside it instead of just distinguishing between mind and body, and then between self and the world?
On a chessboard you have multiple choices within the game but all of them are determined and already preselected for you. There is only the illusion of choice.
The choices are restricted on that board and can be found nowhere else.
What is mind very much is the self and what is outside of mind is very much the world along with the rest of the universe.
You’re just making the same point I’m making now. But you see? No matter what you look at, there’s some choice, and some shit that isn’t a choice. And that’s why the distinction is moot and to an extent a bit bogus. When they proved the world wasn’t flat, they fucking proved it for real. But proving that everything is a matter of will, or that nothing is just doesn’t work that way.
So why not just call it the self? When you say mind, in a philosophy conversation, people mean that term to be different than they would self, and it makes em think about the old mind body duality bit that some philosophers got stuck on in the old days. Now only religious people are stuck on that. Philosophers have settled the problem.
But are the choices grand illusions? Does one have the freedom and free will to act on everything or is everything determined for people?
That’s the whole thing see…it’s not an either/or. Getting to choose even though the choices are determined doesn’t negate the fact that you get to choose, but it does limit the outcomes available to you in cases where your choices are limited by rule and not by reality. If it’s a rule not to do x, you can still do it. If x is, “flapping your arms and flying away”…then you can’t.
What I am trying to say is that the mind is the subjective state where the only objective one exists outside of mind.
This is especially the case in terms of the mind relating with other minds.
That presumes that an individual is a sovereign agent where in the deterministic world they’re not.
One is hardwired, genetically encoded, and programmed to be a certain way in disposition or living.
Is the mind made up of physical matter in your scheme here?
That’s the whole thing see…it’s not an either/or. Getting to choose even though the choices are determined doesn’t negate the fact that you get to choose, but it does limit the outcomes available to you in cases where your choices are limited by rule and not by reality. If it’s a rule not to do x, you can still do it. If x is, “flapping your arms and flying away”…then you can’t.
[/quote]
That presumes that an individual is a sovereign agent where in the deterministic world they’re not.
One is hardwired, genetically encoded, and programmed to be a certain way in disposition or living.
[/quote]
Now you’re just begging the question. I didn’t assume a person was a sovereign agent or whatever. I said that you can have want to flap your arms and fly, but you can’t actually flap your arms and fly. Then you essentially say, “shit is determined because it’s in the deterministic world”.
Of course it is, why wouldn’t it be? Organic physical matter.
Randomness is Order… nothing happens by accident. Take it on a higher level, planetary one and we get:
We are to learn about fear, not how to escape from it. Jiddu Krishnamurti.
subjectivism? I dont think so