Suicide

Philosophy Forums Psychology and Mind
1

Have you attempted/contemplated suicide?

  • Neither.
  • Attempted.
  • Contemplated.
0 voters

Here is what interests me about failed suicide attempts:

What interests me about failed suicide attempts is how often the person fails, and then decides they want to live. I mean, it’s a regular epiphany, like an immediate change of outlook.

Then, everyone, of course, is nicer to them and coddles to their pathetic needs because they are clearly emotionally unbalanced, they don’t do this because they feel any different about the person, they do it because they don’t want the person to attempt suicide again. In most cases, they’ve actually lost respect for the person and view them as selfish and weak, as can be indicated with, “behind-the-back,” conversations I’ve had with some people about others who have attempted suicide.

Furthermore, the attempter of the suicide has just become a tremendous pain in everyone’s collective ass. Think about it, now everyone has to be nice, watch what they say, be constantly worried, and watch making certain jokes. The person who attempted suicide, by living, has temporarily reduced the quality of life of those around them.

Finally, the person who attempted suicide failed. They have so little control over their own existence that they can’t even die right. They have failed at what should be potentially the easiest thing in the world to actually do. Let’s say it’s like 30 degrees Fahrenheit in the middle of winter and you jump off of a high bridge, 1.) You will likely snap your neck during the fall. 2.) You may break your neck upon impact. 3.) You would have to really want to live to be able to swim well enough to beat the cureent and the undertow, while breathing during waves crashing over you. 4.) You will likely get hypothermia.

That’s how easy it is to do, and if you want an insurance policy, don’t jump off of the bridge, fall off of it after you’ve put a bullet into your head. My point is, a person that fails suicide makes more difficult the lives around them, the reason (many of them) attempted suicide in the first place is because they feel as though they have no control over their lives. (Which, of course, the fact that they failed proves to a greater extent) And, because, in general, everything else not related to the above two points was more or less horseshit in their lives, also.

So, the question is, if a person attempts suicide and fails, why would they all of a sudden want to live?

2

I’d also like to emphasize that I am not talking about people who make a half-hearted attempt at suicide to get attention. (I.E. Mild overdoses, cutting the wrists across the road rather than up the street)

I’m talking about people who make a concerted, legitimate attempt and fail, and have a greater desire to live as a result.

3

Threw my $.02 in. Shmeh.

Why would someone want to live after they have attempted suicide? A couple of the reasons I can think of would be:
*The after-care of a suicide attempt focuses on empathy. Maybe in seeing that the world is not entirely harsh and humans can be good it can influence a new outlook.
*Especially in cases where you experience the death (drowning, OD, slit wrists, etc) there is a time where you literally sit there and wait to die. If done with intent the knowledge that you will die in a couple of seconds/minutes is there. Under extreme pressure people evaluate very quickly, so maybe a re-evaulation of status can occur. In the same way an alcoholic has to hit rock bottom before they esperience their moment of clarity and can begin recovery maybe someone suicidal needs to be killing themselves in order to have their moment of clarity. The forced last look at their life merely reveals something they may have been missing, waking up is just a bonus.
*Religious awakening may also occur. If you believe that divine intervention can happen within the world the thought that “I should be dead, what happened?” may lead someone to find God. In the face of the divine someone may merely find the will to live out of God’s goodness.
*‘Death wasn’t fun.’ Someone dies for a couple of minutes and is brought back, they feel no better even though they were dead. Try it again and maybe you won’t find the peace you are looking for? Kind of shotty, but when you don’t see that light at the end of the tunnel you might re-evaluate.

Serious attempts at suicide that fail DO gve rise to people wanting to live again. This is not the matter, just why.

4

Long long ago I had my gun to the side of my head during a very very dark time of my life. I was alone and no one would have come around to find me for days. I did not do it. (duuhhhhh obviously). I was not afraid to do it. I just realized that the last thing in my existance here on earth was going to be the feel of my finger pulling on cold steel and seeing a white blank wall. Then those that loved me or even just liked me would find a grotesque memory of me that would haunt them for the rest of their lives. I hate being selfish so much so that when I realized I was being selfish, I put the gun down.
I worked my butt off to face life with a positive attitude and here I am. I am glad I am not selfish, I would have missed out on a lot of love and joy.

Not all suicides or failed suicides fit into the same reasons and whys. Sometimes that last second epiphany causes the failure. So is it a failure or a success? That term successfull suicide just really gets me. its soo wrong.

5

I don’t know. The question isn’t so much whether or not a person should continue to live, of course they should. More of a question of why would they want to live, if they fail to commit suicide, that should bring their self-concept down, not up.

Your personal example, (which I greatly appreciate) doesn’t exactly qualify, because you never actually attempted suicide.

6

Been there done that.

7

ROFL You are right, when you decide to go out of this world with the assistance of a gun you either do or don’t. its a die or live way. Its not the way to attempt kill yourself for attention. Nope, guns don’t really give you a second chance now do they.So even though the gun was just behind my temple I was seconds from pulling the trigger I did not attempt suicide not technically. I like that dismissal. “Thanks I only want to talk about the vein cutting and drug using suicide attempts, Guns are just so passe.”

You are not really serious about the topic are you? Is it a rubbernecking voyeurism thing? An attempt qualifies as even just collecting pills or getting a razor or standing by a train. You want to talk about something that is more about morbidism. The emotional stress that leads a person to any step towards such thoughts qualifies. Its a long dark path that noone but, the person involved can see. To break free from that path at any time is a wonder. Because that path has very thick black walls that get harder and thicker the longer you are on that path. you get so deep into your own misery you can’t see anything but those walls. For those that can get off that path, they have survived an attempt at killing themselves. but not your opinion the only survivors are the ones that some how get frigging lucky and live. that for some reason maybe just maybe they merely wanted attention and not help. Suicide thinkers have only a few limited ways of reaching past those dark walls and the most commonly used one is the failed hospitalizing attempt. Trying to get attention is a desperate cry for help in most cases. A lost voice on a path.

After twenty years and 10 attempts, no amount of expensive counseling and physchiatry could save my dear step Aunt, the drugs she was on from her Doctor actually pushed her too far in the wrong direction.

An uncle blew his head off with a shot gun 19yrs ago. A friend recovered from her path only to be murdered. Another friend lost her Dad because he parked in front of a train that was the second time he did that.

Those of us that find ourselves on that path have some things in common. we are damn lucky if we can break those things.

And you want people to feel worse about themselves? you believe that they should? You sound like a rubbernecking voyeuristic morbid human.

You have not the foggiest of what it is.

8

Killed yourself? Attempted to? Belittled someone because they didn’t? Throw us a bone!

9

Hmmm, I am recalling two phrases at this point B.C. “Do you really want to know?” and " There is such a thing as too much information."

Whoops and “Beware of what you ask for.” and “Ignorance is bliss”

Ok so 4 things come to mind. :smiley:

10

Good point.

I am not as wise as thee. You have opened my eyes to the knowledge that truth may be true, but not always a good thing.

11

Kriswest,

I believe that you are judging me excessively harshly on this one. I’m not at all morbid, nor voyeuristic, it is simply a matter of intrigue. I’m not stating that people shouldn’t see the light at the end of the tunnel, or that they are terrible human beings, or any of that. It’s simply a shame that a person could view their life so terribly that they be taken to that point in the first place.

What I want to know is, why? Why the attitude change, why the epiphany? I don’t want to have people continue to wish to die, I simply wish to understand why it is they no longer wish to die, that’s all.

The long and short of it is this, my best friend from childhood, Valerie, attempted suicide on two occasions, now the first time she failed and we were there for her, supported her to get well…etc

The second time around she was successful, and I wish there was something I could have done to stop her, that is where my interest comes from. How can I make people change their minds should I ever be put in the situation again, where does that epiphany come from?

12

That intention is quite different, because there is no golden advice to give to keep someone alive. When a person looks into themselves and decides to end their life it is never for a uniform reason, the person themself is what is at the heart of it. There isn’t some keyword that you can say to make someone love life, it depends on the person.

I also have a friend that attempted suicide. She came from a family of 6, they were fairly well off and while she never really came off as ‘happy’ she always seemed content. When she did try to kill herself it came as a shock, moreso what she said made her stop was not what anyone said but just that everyone was there. She didn’t really need anyone to say anything, just to know that we all cared.

As well, another case I know well, someone tried to kill himself and should have succeeded (I guess overdose is always an iffy thing). When he came to he said it was like he had seen the light and realized that there was more to life than what there had appeared to be, so when he awoke the need to die was supplanted by the will to live.

But it more comes down to why someone wants to kill themselves than anything else, if you can understand their motivations and needs you really can help them. If not all you can do is care, it might be enough.

13

Change comes when one sees beyond themselves and it does not fade.

You have to realize that you affect others you have to see, really see and know that the loss of you will harm or affect others adversely and most importantly you actually have to care about that. Really care, on a full time basis. That is the epiphany that saves.

Suicide is an utterly selfish thing to contemplate or act upon. But it is not a fault, it is an illness that creates this selfishness, either physically or mentally.
You have to be able to know that you matter on a full time basis.
Many people slip back into the dark box because they cannot cling to knowing they matter and not caring.

There is no pat answer on helping someone. Each person is different. What works for one will not work for another. Just try to keep them caring is probably the best help anyone can give, unless you want to devote yourself full time to it.

I apologize for considering you harsh it was the phrase that you used that got me ticked :

To me it sounds harsh and arrogant when coupled with the other parts of your posts it added a voyeuristic quality to your posts. Since you did not mean it so, I apologize.

14

So would you argue that one could not defend purely rational suicide on a philosphical basis. In light of the destruction of idealism and meaning and the widespread acceptance of scientism could one not justify killing themself as meaningless, much as one would defend life as such?

15

Apology accepted. I just wondered that because that’s exactly what she always kept saying, “I can’t even kill myself right.” Then, everything was calm for a few months, utterly, eerily calm. That’s when I knew, you ould see it in her eyes, she’d already died.

Anyway, thank you BC and KrisWest for giving me all of these personal experiences you’ve had on the matter. She was only the second person I knew to have killed themselves, the first was a complete surprise, though.

I used to feel responsible for not spending more time with her, but I don’t anymore. When the first attempt came, I spent about twice as much time with her afterwards, but I had other friends and football and I was an, “A,” student, so I couldn’t really make it a 24/7 thing.

16

At times I’ve been very selfish it’s been contemplated. And when a person fails at attempting it’s exactly that, selfishness. People should live in order not to hurt others emotionally, instead they should fix their life in whatever way and treat people with kindness to recieve kindness in turn.

Also other contemplations have been that feeling of what the hell if?

Like, wow it’s a long way down… how crazy would it be if I just jumped off, just did it, how out of character that would be, how crazy. How pissed at myself would I be on the way down, holy shit, not to live anymore. To know I fucked up just to experience fucking up and now I’m doomed.

And has anyone heard of the men who play russian roulette every year? They live each year to the fullest because they don’t know if they’ll die, they did it for many years until one of them died last year. And don’t think the other 2 men quit, they’re still gonna play. It would be nice to have that feeling, without taking the chances.

17

But isn’t this fairly ignorant to the person contemplating suicide. Not only are they not well, but for the sake of others they must suffer in order to be morally correct. While this does have an interesting Christian aspect it is not what would be commonly accepted societally. People should get better for their own sake, some would argue that suicide may be the best way for them to end the misery. Merely seems strange that a person’s health be dictated by the people around them.

I am not 100% sure what you are stating here, but if this is what other people experience I don’t think it is 100% accurate. Most people would find either relief or feel indifferent to suicide, not worse. Perhaps if they fail the attempt and recover to regret it (as I know Catholic suicide attempters often feel HORRIBLE regret after the fact), but during the attempt I don’t think they feel worse about it.

I think that feeling is in the face of the chance they take. Knowing not that they might die (like any person knows) but that at a certain date there is a GOOD chance they could die is something few people know.

18

My condolences on your pain. when she said what she did , she had already given up. She was justifying to the world why she was going to do this thing. By saying such a thing to you and herself, she justified her suicide trying to remove the selfishness of it. You are in no way responsible at all in any way shape or form. She was a sentient human that had problems and pain you could not possibly reach past.

Be at peace, we can only try to reach out, but if the other is not reaching out, then we can do nothing.

19

I appreciate everything that you’ve told me. I’ve never even been depressed, so I have no idea at all what it must be like. I used to have a really quick passive-aggressive temper, but now I’m just passive…lol

20

I hope you never are depressed, but suicide is not depression. It is way past depression and onto quiting. You have seen those that quite in the middle of a race. Depression is not quiting, it just causes you to quite thinking about winnin,g you still race but, you just are not going to win. Suicide is capitulation and total self thinking. Nothing and no one else matters. You drop out of the race even though it harms others.

Sometimes I think pyschologists overthink the actual problem. They want to find hidden easter eggs that don’t exist in this situation. It sort of ticks me off , Like I said earlier there are those that I loved that could have been helped but, the shrinks they saw drugged them or over worked it, maybe, I don’t know. I know I did not, while they did. I know that they saw doctors I did not. I don’t know, Its odd because I still feel them with me, especially when I am tired. They or what they did helps me in a bizzare way, do you understand? I live for them as much as I live for myself and others.

I failed but, I was successfull and I am very giddily happy I succeeded at failing.

I have not thought of this in such a long long long time. It is interesting to review myself in such a way. thank you :slight_smile: