Yiou are then an agnostic. A fence-sitter. One who points his finger the way the wind blows.
You are also extremely patronizing. But then, I am sure you know that, All-knowing One."
And the stupid old monk you sat with - have you ever wondered whether we was laughing at you? 
But I do appreciate your input. Whatever your reasons, you have at least made an attempt to penetrate the mystery of your intuitive mind. Few have even bothered.
Often, people who is obsessed cannot think about the lack of obsession.
Theists and Atheists (really it’s Monotheists and moreover Christians and anti-Christians) are both obsessed with the God. It’s rather sick.
“All-knowing-One” is a delusion seen with positively skewed perspective.
“No-knowing-One” is a delusion seen with negatively skewed perspective.
“One” is a delusion created by the subconscious obsession with duality.
He was laughing at himself. And having fun. 
And he wasn’t stupid. The stupid one was the monk of monastery where I did sessin.
Well, I don’t think you are very honest, here.
Do you think you are getting too old and too stiff (spiritually speaking)?
Don’t you see your simplistic fixations?
Again, you don’t have much time left.
If you want to be a good steward to the earth, I think you need to get out of such fixations.
Otherwise, you will continue to cause more pain for others, just like the case of this thread, by your obsession to the positive illusion and life.
Come on, Nah. That is more than harsh. Why is it sick to desire God’s love? Have you ever been to Africa and seen the care thousands of Christains are giving to the poor and dying, for no reward but the love of God and the love of Gd for man.
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How do you know all that? 
Nah, you are a spiriual voyeur. Next time you go to a monastery, don’t do it for cheap board and lodging. Do it for real. Right attitude is everything.
You can read more carefully.
I was talking about the obsession.
Now, Christians exploiting African situation for the purpose of getting God’s reward is selfish, I’d say.
If they did it even against God, with the risk of being condemned, simply out of empathy, then it’s a form of selfishness that is pretty pure, so to say.
I just twisted your obsession.
Again, you are not reading well.
The old monk was very open minded guy, far more than you are. He was welcoming all. And he was 80 years old or more, at that time.
He wasn’t obsessed with Zen, God, etc, unlike you are.
He had personal obsession, but he didn’t push it onto others.
He knew little in certain area, although he was a dean of a university before, yet he didn’t hide the fact he didn’t know/understood.
And I wasn’t even interested in Zen at that time, as I said. Obviously, I didn’t go for voyeurism.
You don’t have “right attitude” to understand what I write, currently.
But you can see me as a voyeur in a sense, because the awareness is nothing other than a voyeur to the world.
Practice your voyeurism more, and you shall see. 
Nah,
Does someone truly enlightened point out other’s faults or what they feel are other’s faults? Do they condemn? Perhaps they ask questions to point the way…but do they drag them on their way? Do they ridicule someone’s beliefs or someone’s God simply because they believe differently or don’t believe at all?
You accused me of being too helpful and that’s okay because you were right. I was being too helpful. But at the same time, we overstep boundaries when we ridicule another’s belief, what is sacred to them. That is certainly not the path to enlightenment or to someone else’s enlightenment, is it? We can show people our own light but be careful not to blow someone’s candle out for them.
I have to disagree here Arc…
Sure, a lot of it has to do with tone, and how one goes about criticizing another’s beliefs. It’s one thing to call their beliefs stupid, and it’s another to simply express reasons one disagrees.
Where would we be if we were never allowed to criticize others’ beliefs? How would we ever progress?
Yes you are right, Dorky. And it isn’t always easy because we don’t see another’s face. But I am not even speaking of tone here, because we can’t really be clear on someone’s “tone”. I am also not speaking about criticizing per se or critiquing.
If I see and listen to what someone is saying to me …as for example what Nah has sometimes said to me…and he has made sense and I look inside myself or question it, and can see the truth of it, that is a good thing.
I am actually speaking though about downright ridicule or derogatory remarks made about someone’s religion or beliefs or lifestyle. I think sometimes in our arrogance (myself included of course) and I do realize that I am judging here…we think that our way of thinking is the only way of thinking and we do overstep boundaries then…we fly a little to freely.
Take the “rant” for instance. I realize it has its place, but I am of the opinion that we sometimes get too carried away there. There is such a thing as appropriateness and I suppose the rant is to be inappropriate, but even there, can’t there be some boundaries. Some things there are really too off the wall…and believe it or not, I am an open-minded person. When we get to attacking someone’s personhood or making innuendo’s about a person, that is beyond inappropriate to me. And yes I am judging. This forum is in a sense a community…and sometimes a community needs to take a better look…there is such a thing as being not just too conservation but also too liberal…and we are dealing with people here, not pieces of wood. That is just my perspective and I know it is just one of 6 billion. 
At the same time, not wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater…
Among the amaZulu no man may speak his piece until there is gray in his beard.
Our problem today is that we teach children to read at age three. By age twelve after reading a thousand texts they believe that book-knowledge has earned them the right to criticize.
I personally believe that nobody ever has that right. Everything in the cosmos is inter-connected. None of us have the knowledge to know each link in the chain.
There is a simple lesson in the Qaran that illustrates how wrong we can be.
A pilgrim is walking along the beach with the Archangel Gabriel. They see a row of fisherman’s boats. Vandals have knocked holes in their bottoms.
Pilgrim “Why does God allow that? Those boats are the livelihood of hardworking fishermen.”"
“Let us wait and see.”
Presently a group of pirates arrive. They see that the boats are not seaworthy and leave.
“It is it not better to repair a boat than lose it altogether?”
Yes, it is a precarious line the mods walk…
I don’t think you really believe that. Without criticism, we wouldn’t have science. Or religion, for that matter.
Spiritual belief is innate. It is a question of faith not analysis. Science is critical in itself. It’s truth must stand alone. If the shoe does not fit, don’t wear it. There is no need to scoff at it if a theory does not work. Move on.
Hey Dorky,
I am only speaking of when someone’s personality and personal issues enter into the discussion. I am not talking about being critical of a POV and hypothesis and discussing it, pointing out what someone sees as erroneous; just when ego crosses the line and it becomes cut-throat.
I think there may be a very fine gray area, or subtle area here. Perhaps another thread. 
Ah yes. That’s an important distinction to make.
But you’re right, there are gray areas. A lot of people believe religion to be one of those personal areas. I think leaving religious belief off limits can be dangerous.
I find no problem with “discussing” and trying to understand someone else’s religion. I think personally that that can lead to good understanding. It’s when hate and antagonism starts to seep in, when the personal “attacks” on someone else’s religion or on the other person – with the mentality that "my religion is the best’ without seeing the wisdom that they can all lead to God or to wherever it is we are meant to go to.
What do you mean by the last statement? Or do you agree with what I just said?
See no evil
Hear no evil
Speak no evil.
This is not to say evils do not exist. They will never go away if we keep noticing them. Ignoring them is the best policy.
Science and religion will do just fine that way
Arc, I pretty much agree.
But most people view criticism towards their beliefs as a personal attack, regardless.
But I digress…I’d hate to derail two threads.
Ah yes the other thread
Well then, perhaps MagnetMan is right. Discussing and having an exchange as far as religion but… and now it is dead. 
you’re an idealist, MM.
Things aren’t that simple.
Did someone do what you are asking?
I’m not really interested in “enlightenment”, whatever it is.
Also, in logical thinking, you would fail to understand things if you make “sacred” or “untouchable” zone. It is basically blinding yourself.
Similarly, if the discussion is somewhat rational/logical one, creating “sacred” zone would likely to be less helpful in understanding each other.
When someone has a fixation and wants to keep it, somehow, the person may go into denial behaviors.
One of them is to declare that he is emotionally hurt and create an illusion that he is right and he can ignore what’s being said.
Probably you can see this happening in this thread and some others.
It’s a basically what “victim mentality” does.
And it doesn’t help one’s understanding nor growth.
Why not? If someone is interested in Buddhist type enlightenment, it’s called “Nirvana” and it means “blowing out”. Although I don’t think it’s possible to blow out someone’s light as you presume, blown out person would be more than happy to have their Nirvana if it ever happened.
Your mind is divided. And you are trying to ignore one side.
This keeps your ignorance in the subconscious.
And they will never go away.
When you don’t understand Evil because their is no absolute Evil nor absolute goodness, and when you loose interest in Evil, there is no division in you about the Evil and thus you will see/hear/speak no Evil.
The obsession about Evil has ended.
In your case, you are still obsessed with Evil, life, etc. etc.
That narrows your view and prevent you from being what you want to be.
You become “rude” by your own standard, contradicting your beliefs.
And you remain in the self created semi-blindness.
It’s a common human condition that has been causing many problems, some of which you may be aware of.
I am aware that I appear to many on this forum in the manner you describe above - a single-minded eccentric old fart so fixed in his way he cannot see the woods for the tree.
Mohandes Ghandi lived lived by the creed of the three wise monkeys. In my opinion he was a single-minded eccentric old fart, so fixed in his ways that he could not see the meaning of the British Raj for his fixation on self-determination. Net result: He divided India and now the two parts want to nuke each other.
My problem with you and others like you is that I see a rebellious self-determined young pseudo-intellectual, who has been so thoroughly spoon-fed with predigested, book-learned, information inside closed classroom for twelve years of your young life, while the intuitive half of your brain has been left to atrophy, you are now left with no way of fairly judging the level of your comprehension.
My attitude to the concept of evil is simple.
It is plain unadulterated ignorance, nothing more, nothing less. And as such it can be rooted out by engaging in simple right brain drills and exercises. I suggest you get to work.