Sun bathing/tanning beds. WTF

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

Lots of people know about skin cancer and sun risk. lots of people don’t give a fuck.

no one would huff asbestos for cosmetic purposes, no one shaves with a slightly rusty knife, people try to avoid eating bacteira contaminated food, even when these things could be ‘efficient’ we generally try to avoid them.

Even when people can avoid the sun, they don’t, people do not wait unti 4 or whatever to avoid maximum exposure, lots of people avoid the shade, and more specifically lots of people specifically go to the beach, for hours a day, or even worse, a tanning bed, to purposefully induce massive cell death, for a protective tan.

I don’t understand why no one is concerned with the direct dna damage from the sun. (Since i’ve been like 4 i’ve known the risk and by my own free will have applied it almost everytime i’ve gone outside and have also tried to limit my exposure to the worst of sunlight).

I can still enjoy the outdoors, ,e ven the brightest/hotest days in full sunlight.

but to purposefully say, ,work on top of a house everyday or working on the road every day, and decide not to wear sunscreen. fuck, what the hell? these people care when they get diagnosed plenty.

2

I obviously know others are concerned and do take protective measures, I personally know people who do, its just, a low percentage.

3

People drive cars without wearing a seat belt.
People ride motorcycles without wearing a helmet.
People smoke ciragettes and chew tobacco.

They don’t have the same risk-vs-reward values as everyone else.

– C.

4

I dated a girl once who called herself “tan-orexic”. If she didn’t have a tan, she felt horrble about herself. I had to sanction her over becoming orange once. Once she started getting spots on her skin, after they went away, she went straight back to the tanning beds. Disgusting. My new girlfriend has a nice, natural olive complexion which I find quite attractive. No need for artificial beauty. Hurting your body for aesthetic reasons is beyond my comprehension.

5

THeres nothing unnatural about a sun-induced-tan though, and its very bad for your health as well.

As to the other cancers though. tobacco is addictive, having a car without a seatbelt isn’t nearly as dangerous for the statistical lot of us, so forth and so on.

i guess it could come down to people being adapted to living in the sun and not living past 25ish, but still.

6

Dude what if the world was populated with nothing but the 25 and under crowd?

7

Meh.

Have you ever tanned? It feels fantastic. Naturally or on a bed. I drink to excess everyday, and I consider people who talk about the state of my liver to be wet blankets. I feel the same about people who judge tanning procedures. Stupid? Sure. But so what? Homo economicus I ain’t.

8

I have ‘tanned’ naturally and for me, it was not plesant. The burning and agrivation, infact, inducing massive cell death, probably doesn’t feel good for most people, which is why ‘tanning’ naturally envolves burning and redening. (at least for lots of people)

A lot of people who sun-bath do want to live long lives, a lot of people who sun-bath are horrified/depressed when they are diagnosed with skin cancer, even some, surprised. Most people who drink brutally at least have an inclination of acceptance with what their doing to their bodies, or are at least addicteed enough that if they wanted to stop they couldn’t.

I don’t see this in skin bath(ers). I’m not going to tell anyone who doesn’t care about skin cancer or liver failure that they shouldn’t drink or bath, ,the problem is that most people who sun bathe do not accept skin cacner diagnosis as if it was the ‘destined’ result of their own actions.

9

Sitting in the sun feels great if thats what you mean. You can sit in the sun with sunscreen. (though its very wretched stuff and annoying to put on. hate the smell, never go without it though).

lazing in the sun doesn’t feel as good, as skin cancer feels bad, though.

10

I don’t need to tan: am golden brown already :smiley: but if I were paler: I would not risk my health with such a practice as sun-bathing… If I go to sunnier climes than the good ol UK: I use SPF50…
Vanity makes people do stupid things, I guess!

11

All I see is that you are demeaning a population for their particular vice. Let’s consider whether or not we have vices of our own before we attribute undue agency here. A person who eats right, exercises and, yes, tans will outlive your average cough potato. Just because we’ve grown desensitized to heart disease doesn’t mean that it still isn’t the number one killer in the US – and the entire first world. When skin cancer reaches that level you can get on your high horse. But skin cancer isn’t even king amongst cancers. Last I checked, the top five cancers in the US are:

Prostate
Lung & Bronchus
Urinary bladder
NH Lymphoma
and . . .
Melanoma.

So you want good public health? First go after people for being male. That is a very good cause for cancer. After that, smoking. Then, for the most part, male again (urinary cancers are more common amongst men), then simply for having blood. After that you can go after tanners.

Is it stupid? Sure. In fact, from a raw statistical point of view, it is even dumber than my functional alcoholism. But here is the scary thing: I bike 99 times out of 100. But 1 in 100 times I am driving. Because of that, I am a much greater risk to your mortality than some casual sun bathing. And you don’t have control over my actions, do you? Because there are people like me that are far less responsible. Food for thought.

12

I went to the store at like 7:30pm. with sunscreen. 25minute walk.

it shouldn’t be as bright as noon at 7:30pm. slightly burned.

FUCK SUMMER.

13

Its not just a vice though. I don’t really care about people’s drug problems/adductions, thats a vice. I don’t care about thousands of vices. What I am saying here, ,is that it seems to me, that a lot of people are risking their health specifically for vanity, that is a vice based on vanity

People don’t do it for vanity though and people are more aware of the risk. and stress is just as large a heart-disease predictor as over-weight/lack of exercise, as well as sitting a lot. (not just being overweight but specifically sitting a lot). Even people with normal BMI, a huge percent have dangerous organ fat, its not actual weight but exercise/sitting. But you’re right, its just people don’t do those thigns for vanity specifically.

I am not decrying that people do it, I wouldn’t even say anything to someone who didn’t care about cancer or anyone at all anyway, i’m saying its fucked up that they think its worth it for vanity.

THats deaths, if you want to talk about diagnosis, its higher than all other forms of cancer combined.

Skin cancer has a higher diagnostic rate than all other forms of cancer combined, most skin cancer isn’t healthy, it likely reeks havok among the immune system, and when years later they’re diagnsoed with ANOTHER cancer, theres nothing to say that all that dna damage didn’t contribute to that either.

Yes, and because a lot of people think like you, that its not that much of a risk, ,t hat people do other stuff which is dangerous, skin cancer diagnosis exceed all other cancer diagnosis combined, it IS a huge problem, and its ONLY a huge problem because of *VANITY, not because of addiction, not because of lack of control, specfically, so that other humans will think them ‘pretty’.

and these people are horrified when they get skin cancer unlike a drinker.

I’m glad you’re so casual about your drinking and driving. Do you think its okay because its rare?

14

most statistics about driving/alcohol related deaths includes sober people smashing into drunk people on the road and such as well, so the statistics may be a bit amplifieed.

no one said drunk driving wasn’t stupid and a social pox though.

15

Oh, drinking and driving is the worst. In my opi nion anyway. Right up there with PCP in terms of accidental involvement. I mean, if I happen to choke on my own vomit one morning, so be it. But if I were to drive my car into someone else, well, that is fucked up as hell.

In my mind, drunk driving is one of the worst things a person can do. And though I work daily upon bettering m’self, I openly admit my own flawed nature. In fact, in terms of doin’ bad things, in terms of bonin’ thirteen year olds when you oughtn’t be doin’ such things ranks considerably higher than drivin’ while intoxicated. And while I’ve stopped the former, I’ll slip on the latter. It just so happens that the more virtuous the action, the harder it is to maintain – but sacrificing a particularly odious vice tends to enable minor ones. Though I’m tryin’, thank you very much.

But that is enough about me, let’s talk about vanity. You brought that up after all.

Vanity is a tricky issue. The Christians tell us pride is the deadliest sin. I think you’d do well to listen to them, even if they attach that particular sin to some serious mumbo-jumbo. But virtue ethics I don’t expect you to share aside, what is wrong with vanity qua vanity? A person pumps and preens, that is their business, ain’t it? Sure, they aren’t as good a person as they could be because of that (but from my own admittedly subjective opinion here) but by what right do you judge?

I’m not saying you can’t judge. I think judging is important. But by what right do you do it?

16

Vitamin D!

The sun provides life, we learned this long ago. I imagine that it is embedded in our psychology and biology to enjoy the sun.

17

Good stuff, Xunzian.

I have a tanning package at a local salon, and I’d be lying if I said that every time I went in there I didn’t think about how it was pretty stupid. But, much to Xunzian’s points, it’s just a vice, nothing more. I smoke too. Even smoke some weed once in a while. And if I could afford a cocaine habit, I’d probably do that too. As cliche as it is, I could be dead tomorrow. This is what I think about. Why worry about dying five, ten or twenty years before “my time” but not worry about dying, ya know, in a few hours? Both seem equally pointless. I’ve actually posted this elsewhere, but something I’ll never forget is a moment I had with my grandfather of 94 years. I asked him if it seemed like a long time, his life. He said no. What that says to me is that even if I’m lucky enough to live for-fucking-ever by human standards, my life will still be “short.” Knowing that, what difference does it make how short? Life just is short. That’s part of the big secret, didn’t you know?

Will I regret my vices on my deathbed? Probably. And I’ll probably regret a bunch of other, non-vice shit, too. What I know is that I’m alive, and that I want the experience to be one I enjoy while it lasts. Tanning, silly as it may be, as something I find enjoyable, is part of my process of living a happy life. When it ceases to give me pleasure, I’m quite certain I’ll stop.

18

No, wrong. Terrible stuff, Xunxian.

“By what right do you judge” - completely irrelevant. Also your comment earlier about how we shouldn’t get on a high horse about skin cancer, because there are several other much more potent killers out there - nonsensical.

The point is not that we are judging individuals harshly for doing things that we do ourselves in some generalized sense. The point is that we are pointing out things that are wrong, or stupid, or detrimental. If a murderer criticizes someone for drunk driving, is he wrong? Of course not - the criticism is perfectly correct. What is wrong is the idea that the murderer feels superior for not drunk driving himself. That would be stupid - but that completely misses the point.

I personally detest it when people put off criticism or advice based on that kind of argument. A murderer - and indeed everyone - should criticize drunk driving, because drunk driving is wrong and bad. Under no circumstances, and coming from no person, is this criticism wrong, hypocritical, or otherwise unwarranted. Whether or not you get to feel superior in making the criticism - well, that depends on the individual, and can indeed be wrong or hypocritical in some situations.

Same with criticizing people who damage themselves by sunbathing. In most cases, people who tan excessively are doing themselves a disservice by sacrificing their long-term best interests in favor of their immediate best-interests. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with criticizing this sort of behavior. We simply need to be sure that the behavior is actually deserving of criticism (which it is for most but surely not all sunbathers), and also that we don’t go about feeling superior because of this criticism, which would often be detrimental.

The idea that we should sunbathe now because it feels good, and live a life where we indulge ourselves immediately, is obviously stupid. By that logic we should max out our credit cards, because the consequences won’t come for months or years. We should cheat if we’re married, because the consequences won’t come until later. We should do heroin, because it feels great! Stupid, stupid, stupid.

This isn’t to say that we should live a life of bland asceticism. Obviously there’s a balance between indulgence and asceticism, and that balance is not some fluffy idea about what feels good, or something based on human rights, or anything like that. The balance is quite simply, what will cause my life to be the best overall? Ignoring pleasures won’t do it, and tanning, smoking, and drinking myself to death won’t do it either.

Smoking is stupid especially because people are completely aware of the consequences. The criticism that sun-bathers and tanners seem to have their own world of denial, where they are shocked when they get skin cancer, is also a completely valid criticism. Smoking is more retarded because it’s more lethal, more expensive, and the “cool” factor is more pathetic. But sun-bathing is still bad, because to obsess about your looks to such a predictable detriment of health sets a precedent that helps you become a shallow, self-absorbed person. And, as has been said, you don’t have the excuse of addiction.

I don’t get to tell anyone else what to do. I absolutely get to tell you when what you do is stupid. I do stupid stuff myself, occasionally (although honestly not nearly as much as some of you other posters). This doesn’t mean that my criticisms are hypocritical. My criticisms apply just as much to the stupid stuff I do as to the stupid stuff other people do. I don’t go about making criticisms to feel superior - I am critical because I think it’s pathetic when I use some excuse to allow myself to become a worse person, and I think it’s pathetic when others do it too.

19

Just for the record i’m not in the business of judging people with drug habits, sun-bathing and so forth, when they’re aware of the risks.

sun-bathers seem to have more people who;

  1. Don’t take the risks seriously and think the risk is a lot more reduced than it is in reality.
  2. Usually try and suggest its ‘not all that bad’ and usually bring up vitamin D. (as if its somehow healthy lifestyle choice)

you get all the vitamin D you need from your diet, if you don’t, a couple of hours in the sun (outside of 12-4pm) every two weeks, will get you what you need.

Its one of those things that people don’t have to try hard over as well. Tanning for physical appearances is not the same thing as over-eating or being addicted to drugs, people can slap on sunscreen to go out in the sun, it takes 2seconds. People are specifically adapted to eat as much of this horrible high-fat, high-sugar, drugs are psychologically and physically addicting in ways that tanning by definition, isn’t.

tanning in a specific tanning bed especially is pretty crazy. Its worse than smoking.

People can say theres more deaths from lung-cancer fine, theres way many more diagnosis of skin cancer which can lead to other fatal cancers even when the skin cancer is ‘cured’.

you can stop smoking cigerettes. If I smoke for 5 years and then stop, within ten years my chancecs of getting lung cancer return to that of a roughly normal human, after 5 years of tanning beds or five years at the beach, there is no way you can reduce your risk, and most people can’t just cease exposure to the sun.

Its not only that its a vain decision, its a vain decision that most sun-bathers regret because its irreversible by its very nature. I don’t know a single 40-45 year old, who sun bathed, who didn’t say they regretted it for the last 10 years, because of 1. the fuckedd up damage they did to their skin (and the subsequently being twice as ugly as a normal human for the second half of your life) and 2. they have skin cancer or were warned by their doctor they’re predisposed because of leathery, fucked up skin.

Its a choice made for vanity not addiction and its even more irreversible than a nation’s leading killers, most these people deal with the shit later in life, and they’re not okay with it.

20

I don’t know, we can fixate on the sun but that’s just one aspect of an overall lifestyle. I say get out your sunblock and get outside and don’t be afraid of every little thing. I use a lot of sunblock in the spring and when I’ve got some tan I lay off the sunblock. Get off the computer once in a while, screw the tanning booth, get outside, and get some exercise and fresh air. Or don’t. I guess I’m being judgemental.