Since there seems to be some confusion because this came up in a PoE thread, it gets its own thread.
I can reverse engineer the world in my brain if certain arguments were presented Ucci…
And yes,
If you take any infinite list…
By definition of infinity, there is no highest order of infinity, and it is false that they cannot be counted… you can list any sequence with an algorithm… if the algorithm itself has infinite processing time, then there is no sequence. If the algorithm is completely random, then it’s no longer an algorithm and you still have no output. Cantor and Chaitin were wrong.
It’s considered a mathematical proof ala Cantor from over 140 years ago that all of the real numbers cannot be counted…
I use a techinique called 1 dimensional flooding to show that all of the reals cannot be counted in one list with one dimension, which is differnt than Cantors diagonalization argument, I had to disprove Cantors argument to do this.
use the lists…
012345678910…
123456789101…
234567891011…
345678910111…
456789101112…
567891011121…
678910111213…
etc…
To do one dimensional flooding, you simply add an infinite list to each place in the previous infinite list…
024681012151…
036912151821…
048121620242…
051015202530…
When the list converges at infinity, there is no way to begin counting…
12345678910…
13579111315…
14812162024…
Because you never pass the zero’s.
This is the proof that we cannot determine the limit of how much we can count.
Sorry forgot to add the disproof of Cantor’s diagonalization argument…
Once you do one dimensional flooding, you have to expand to another dimension to keep listing the sequences… diagonals can be subsumed by a third dimension, say list 1.1, or list 5.7 etc… or a 4th dimension 1…1, 5…7, etc…
It’s actually easy to absorb the diagonals by starting from the center and listing them from top to bottom in sequence using another dimension… what this means is that cantors proof that you cannot count all the reals is false. It also means that you cannot find the limit on what can be calculated!!! except that it cannot be everything!!!
Basically, James, what this means, is that there are no powers to infinity, each dimensional flooding is just as large as another dimensional flooding.
My technique for sequencing the rationals… I call it the mirroring technique, because i realized that if you mirror all of the natural numbers you have all of the decimals.
The way it works is that the first ten numbers are counted just as themselves and their negatives:
0,1, -1,2, -2,3, -3,4, -4,5, -5,6, -6,7, -7,8, -8,9, -9
Then after that you count 10 and then the next number is the mirror of 10, which is 01 and then you move the decimal point in once to get the 12th number being 0.1, then the thirteenth number (not counting the negatives which are numbered every other) is 0.(1 repeating). These steps continue until you reach three digit numbers and higher. Once you count 100, you then count the next number as 0.01, then 0.0(1 repeating) then 0.(01 repeating), then you count 101 and it’s mirror. If you keep marching in the decimal point when the number that’s about to be mirrored ends in zero it causes infinite overlap. The number 100 ends in a zero, so after you mirror it you only march the decimal in for one place to the right, if you march it two places to the right, you end up with 00.1, which is the same mirror that you get when the number 10 is mirrored, and will occur an infinite number of times as the zeros expand and you keep marching in the decimal point (which will give you infinite overlap as the sequence expands).
However, if the number doesn’t end in a zero, you keep marching in the decimal point, say the number 102. The next number is mirroring it, so it’s 2.01, then you do the repeating decimals by next counting 2.0(1 repeating) and then 2.(01 repeating), then you march the decimal point in once more to get 20.1, and then you do the repeating decimals by having 20.(1 repeating). (If you march the decimal in one more time, you get 201, and have infinite overlap as well.) Then you count the number 103 and then mirror it and do this forever.
You won’t find my mirroring technique to count the rationals on wikipedia or ANYWHERE but where I wrote them, and the dimensional flooding argument is as plain as day.
Do unto yourself and others as you’d do unto yourself if you were them - Ecmandu’s Rule.
Ecmandu
Philosopher
Posts: 1598
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:22 am
What this means is that you need an infinite number of processing time because there are an infinite number of dimensions, to sequence the reals, thus you can’t start the list if you do the whole sequence.
If you process something forever, you don’t count the entire list, the ONLY possible way to count the list is to do it infinitely fast!!! But this means ZERO time passed, which means the list was never counted in the first place. Therefor, you cannot count an infinity, in any realm, even the oxymoronic “immaterial realm”.
But that’s not good enough to disprove a creator, that’s only good enough to disprove omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence, which are all interrelated concepts.
To disprove the creator, the first mover, all you need to argue is that if the cosmos hasn’t been around forever, it must have come from nothing at all, which means there cannot be a first mover.