The anomally

Many have endeavoured to explain religion and it’s prevalence in the condition of mankind. It is as if religion comes to us as a pathology, or certainly as a childish attachment, as Freud might put it, to a Super-father figure. These enlightened persons, see religion from the first assumption that there is nothing behind the curtain but sheer coincidence, a truth revealed over and over by science.
So why in an age of science even scientist themselves hold on to this fantasy, myth and superstition? In countries where education generates proffessionals for the state, it is hardly an argument to appeal to a general ignorance or credulity as the main factors.
Tradition, perhaps? Seems far fetched since the religions we see today bear little or no resemblance to the religions of old.
It should be stated that more interesting than the ability of religion to reinvent it’s product is the fertile soil it’s message takes roots.
Religions are after all, like software that gets added on to a hardware; that is, Faith.
How does that feeling gets passed?
Is it an anomally of nature, the mutation to be explained, a natural flair gone insane? Is it even biological, or is it rather a by-product of our cultural communication, our language in fact?
But another question arises in the answers one could imagine. What about atheists?
Cicero pointed at their existence as counter evidence to the widely proposed argument that the gods must exist because every heart declares it so. Some might go for the existence of consciense as a similar proof. But what about atheist? What about these fellows that are unimpressed? Are they the anomally? Is their construction, so to speak, lacking on something that the rest of the theist share? Is it education that they have that others don’t? Is it anything at all in their enviroment or is it a matter found in their genes, a “God gene” as some reporter wrote?
It intrigues me. These are question that have been answered before, but never forever. What are your answers to these?

Dan’s eternal answer:

Comprehention and theory of higher power and meaning fits into our survival instinct, which is meant to help us progress, and it helps us recignize patterns in the events in reality. Once we find a pattern, we try to deal with it, effect it or control it.

“Religion” is when a group of people share and incourage a specific theory of higher meaning and order/power. In the game-theory, ofcourse a species tries to join groups that are fundamentally similar, to increase success rates.

A person can change from believing in “God” – to not believing in “God”, or they can change from atheism to theism; this can change; this is not simply genetic. This is a method of belief, which effects our own emotions and understanding [usually about absract or vast things].

That is my explanation. Any questions?

Hello Dan~:
— That is my explanation. Any questions?
O- Yes.
You say:“Once we find a pattern, we try to deal with it, effect it or control it.”
But the statistics fail to demonstrate such a pattern and in fact may refute any postulated pattern, leaving us with sheer coincidence. What answer is there for the “Righteous Sufferer”, for example?

— A person can change from believing in “God” – to not believing in “God”, or they can change from atheism to theism; this can change; this is not simply genetic.
O- Perhaps people change or perhaps they never change. Pascal may have “changed” and so could Anthony Flew, but these gents did not attain that faith of the Martyrs for example. I doubt either would have placed their own health in jeopardy for the sake of either a “wager” or an impersonal force.
You may find many religious persons who are wanting a faith and even the religions they follow declare this possibility of a religious and pious person who has no faith-- an atheist in disguise.
Also, often the person that was once a theist usually does not simply become an atheist, but just agnostic. They leave the fold of their religion not because they know now that there is no God but because they now believe that the theory, the tale told about this God is too fantastical to be believed. Often they do not stop being religious but simply continue to be in a new form of religion.

I found your answer to coincide with many of my opinions on this matter, but again, i think that there must be a biological connection. For example, the old proverb says that fear is the beginning of wisdom. In a world that is dangerously inhospitable to life, human life, could it be that it is then, in the grip of fear that man invents his salvation, or is prepared to agree on the claims of the religion?
In short, perhaps it is not a gene, but an emotion–perhaps it is not that a gene triggers faith, but that our sensibility to fear regulates our piety.

It has to do with method. We think we need to do something a certian way in order to succeed. Some people theorize that they have to commit suicide in order to defeat or stop the vast problems in their lives.

Thinking that God created the world, and wants us to act a certian way, becomes the method – as we try to deal with the pattern that we had found or theorized.

Most likely, their “spirituality” / moral-identity / beliefs where deeply ingrained and the training/programming started at childhood. Sexual childabuse effects a person for the rest of their life, this is an example of deep effects changing the mind for the rest of the lifetime. This can happen with things other then abuse, it can come from preasure or brain-washing. Constant strong belief in something, by everyone around you, especially your parents, will deeply effect your mind later on aswel as now.

Orcourse, all of our actions start of as biological, natural instincts, and then there is a wide, wide variety of methods that cultures and individuals use to deal with their natural desire.

“Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom” was the wording, but fear in the will to avoid or defeat problems/loss in life. If “God” created everything, needs nothing, and is all-loving/perfect, what is there to fear? He needs nothing, so he has no reason to kill anyone or harm anyone. Sigh, but that “heavenly king” had allot to do with the culture of that day.

I must agree with you. Many people, I’ve seen turn to religion when someone they loved died.

I liked what you said here so I’m gunnu copy and paste your quote to my docs. :smiley:

Sorry buddy, but we can’t be simplistic about religion and “God”. There is allot of different natural desires involved. It’s not just fear, it’s the legacy of having parents look after us as a child – then we feel the same way about the universe somehow, sometimes. It’s the fact that things around us seem “alive” and we can estimate that they are actually controlled-by/extensions-of vast and strange lifeforms.

i m too tired right now to read the otehr topics but here’s my answer

i’m an anti-theist. Why ? because i m not into auto-mass-hypnosis and i think religion is harmfull; why do so many people believe in “god” ? A: because its a satisfying answer to lifes’ questions and it helps people forget about such questions and live their lives… is it possible to live your life without this hypnosis ? YES, can everyone do it ? at present time… no way maybe in the future.

even before i start to say anything else, i must point out that on this matter vocabulary is VERY important.
So i’d like to point out the difference between “the biblical god” and “a creator” they are 2 very different “entites”.

I could never understand why mature people could not see the sillyness behind religious rituals and i’m affraid i still dont have an aswner to that. I do know that illiteracy and stupidity play a very important role though. Stil there are very well educated people who choose to believe that rubbish; why they do it ? i dont know

I think that the stupid people believe in “the biblical god”, some smart/educated people believe in “a creator”, even smarted people :stuck_out_tongue: like atheists refuse to get down on their knees and worship an immaginary god, however they dont always know who they dont belive in, the biblical god or a creator.
In the case of anti-theists i think their hate for religion draws from the complete idiotic ways in which theists explain the world and from experience.

FACT: “god” makes religious people feel good, offers then some sort of explanation; atheists on the otehr hand see the rubbish for what it really is and preffer not to feel good because of god because even though its a good feeling its harmful to our own inners selves.

FACT: ANYTHING, and any question can be answered by 1 answer “Because god wanted it” and all discussions stop there for 90% of the religious people.

Why i’m and atheist/antitheist ?, Because i consider “Because god wanted it” to be the worst possible answer to any question; its a non-explanation.
If you take away the "unknown’ humans got nothing else to live for, so by trying to give life meaning with religion they’ve actually taken it away.

I wasnt going to post this final argument, but here it is anyway:

The very nature of “god” implies that he doesnt exist, or that if he ever existed he most likely commited suicide.
Think about it, the joy of any conciousness is to discover new things and how they work and also get alot of saddisfaction when they achieve something through hard work with limited powers. Now if you take such things away from any being and moreover you give it infinite knowledge and power THAT BEING HAS NOTHING ELSE TO EXIST FOR, therefore the only thing left to do is kill ones self.

Imagine the agony of “god” knowing it all, being all powerful and because of its nature not being able to die. I cannot help but feel sorry for this poor creature.

Hello Carp.

— i’m an anti-theist. Why ? because i m not into auto-mass-hypnosis and i think religion is harmfull; why do so many people believe in “god” ? A: because its a satisfying answer to lifes’ questions and it helps people forget about such questions and live their lives… is it possible to live your life without this hypnosis ? YES, can everyone do it ? at present time… no way maybe in the future.
O- The religion as a pathogen theory is only acceptable to those that do not understand the feeling. In many ways religion is helpful, changing, or helping people change their lives and giving hope to the hopeless. Life is inherently optimistic, so I would say, that for those that live, a form of faith is often found.
That does not at all contradict what you are saying. Religion is often harmful, but it is not just-that-and-nothing-else.
It is true that religion answers life’s big questions, but then again, none at all. I mentioned the Righteous Sufferer, our Job, who in spite of his faith, has questions left to be answered…and he received anything but an answer.
It is perhaps possible to live life without religion, or at least this or that particular religion. These are learned systems. But one does not live without a little bit of faith. It is ingrained in our most mundane activities, such as language.

— I could never understand why mature people could not see the sillyness behind religious rituals and i’m affraid i still dont have an aswner to that. I do know that illiteracy and stupidity play a very important role though. Stil there are very well educated people who choose to believe that rubbish; why they do it ? i dont know
O- You should ask them.

— FACT: ANYTHING, and any question can be answered by 1 answer “Because god wanted it” and all discussions stop there for 90% of the religious people.
O- Is it that difference from saying: Because the gods will it, or Because it could not happen any other way as we live in a determined universe; or maybe we should answer it: Bad/Good Luck, or Pure coincidence.
In all of these answers the same effect comes about—any question indded can be answered by any of these responses 90% of the time

— Why i’m and atheist/antitheist ?, Because i consider “Because god wanted it” to be the worst possible answer to any question; its a non-explanation.
O- The others are not that much better. Why was New Orleans wiped out?
The point that I am trying to make is that religion is attractive because there are no better answers, because ANY answer will entail a tale and that tale is, by pure practicality, the religion.

— If you take away the "unknown’ humans got nothing else to live for, so by trying to give life meaning with religion they’ve actually taken it away.
O- There is a difference. The religious person is not left without mysteries—I already mentioned Job—but has inserted a filter by which he looks towards that mystery. But be it with or without a god, t5he mystery remains. The theist simply puts the possibility for answer in a future time, while the atheist is convinced in his own religion, that the universe can make sense in this life.

— The very nature of “god” implies that he doesnt exist, or that if he ever existed he most likely commited suicide.
Think about it, the joy of any conciousness is to discover new things and how they work and also get alot of saddisfaction when they achieve something through hard work with limited powers. Now if you take such things away from any being and moreover you give it infinite knowledge and power THAT BEING HAS NOTHING ELSE TO EXIST FOR, therefore the only thing left to do is kill ones self.

Imagine the agony of “god” knowing it all, being all powerful and because of its nature not
being able to die. I cannot help but feel sorry for this poor creature.
O- The object of your critique seems to be a very specific version of Divinity, one that is not automatically universal. You can only refute god as someone has imagined him so far, not as it might be in-itself.


Hello Dan~:

— It has to do with method. We think we need to do something a certian way in order to succeed.
O- But what is the measure used to determine this “success”? If I pray for the life of a person who is dying and that person still dies, then how was my method successful?
— Some people theorize that they have to commit suicide in order to defeat or stop the vast problems in their lives.
O- I don’t know how they come to this conclusions, because it seems clear to me that he who commits suicide does so, not to defeat the problems of his life—since he will obviously be dead— and more to stop his life, which is the entire problem.

— Thinking that God created the world, and wants us to act a certian way, becomes the method – as we try to deal with the pattern that we had found or theorized.
O- Let’s not forget that is not so much what god wants, which is dubious at best, but what the believer wants in return—that is the key.
Quote:
In short, perhaps it is not a gene, but an emotion–perhaps it is not that a gene triggers faith, but that our sensibility to fear regulates our piety.

— Sorry buddy, but we can’t be simplistic about religion and “God”. There is allot of different natural desires involved.
O- Name a few. Scholars who have tried to trace the beginnings of religious sentiment look at the funeral practices of the lost societies. By this, it is almost presupposed, that religious sentiment is in it’s origins a preoccupation with death. But more than that, the favors asked of the divinity in prayer are not of things we clearly control, but of those things we cannot control and thus are causes of anxiety, and what else? Fear.

— It’s not just fear, it’s the legacy of having parents look after us as a child – then we feel the same way about the universe somehow, sometimes.
O- The child too feels fears.

The logical bandade = “s/he’s in heaven now.”
“It was a test.”
etc…
Lots of scape goating and logical bandades in this area of death and faith.

But he wants to destroy the body instead of the problem, he still wants to defeat the problem, but his destructive energy turns back in on himself and undoes his will to live.

Very true.

Quote:
In short, perhaps it is not a gene, but an emotion–perhaps it is not that a gene triggers faith, but that our sensibility to fear regulates our piety.

True enough; thanks for sharing that with me.
I see death/heaven holding a center ground in most religious focus.

I know that fear is a big factor, but what about wanting to see all of your lost loved ones again? That’s love, that’s strong to. Allot of weight is hanging on most religious hope – so much that it really is mind-altering.

Thanks for replies, cya.